manayunkman Posted January 11, 2012 Share #126 Posted January 11, 2012 i am not a fan of the show Real Deal. I think the title isnt telling the truth about the show, i rarely see someone get a real deal, the seller that is. i just have not seen the dealers make a fair offer, they stick to this unrealistic amount saying thats what its worth. the dealer from san diego is a real smarta$$. Frankly, i think they give all dealers a bad rep. Fred I am aware of this show and know that the buyers do not get to a chance to preview anything or do research. If they don't know anything about it they have to make an educated guess. The guy from San Diego is really a nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted January 11, 2012 Share #127 Posted January 11, 2012 I don't believe the show will hire the prices. Most people will say "that's neat" and watch. People won't just run out and spend 10k on militaria. Many adults don't have time for a hobby. My Dad used to set up LGB trains until his job got really demanding. Although, we could start seeing younger collectors. If you see a vase appraised on Antique Roadshow for 5000 and run out and buy one? No, but you still watch the show. Good luck with the show, Austin The problem of higher prices is that the general public will be more educated on prices and really good deals will vanish. That is what everyone is afraid of. It doesn't scare me. I will have to work harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KVSkelton Posted January 11, 2012 Share #128 Posted January 11, 2012 Bob and Owen, congrats on the new show! I have the DVR set to record it and look forward to watching the first two episodes tonight. I have always enjoyed y'all's posts on here and have had one small transaction with Vintage Productions with very good results. Best of luck! I believe Dave hit the nail on the head about the way shows/movies effect prices in our chosen collecting field. I hope the show increases the knowledge base of the public/collectors in addition to be entertaining. A knowledgeable public may not neccessarily mean lower prices for us but it may mean more items that don't hit the landfill. I hate to think of the items that are discarded every day because someone considers them useless. That said, I can't wait until Red Tails drives up all the prices of my 15th AAF stuff and I can sell it and get rich! :w00t: Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted January 11, 2012 Share #129 Posted January 11, 2012 I hate to tell you all this but, the person you refer to is STILL out there in the CW collecting community as a dealer. What is really disturbing is that other dealers are still giving this guy respect @ shows??? I cant imagine way any moral dealer would still deal with that scum bag? :thumbdown: I guess cash trumps all. :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted January 11, 2012 Share #130 Posted January 11, 2012 Personally, I am not worried about prices going up due to this show. The other movies and shows that caused prices to go up affected a niche market... Airborne, ETC. Antiques roadshow has been on the air for 20 + years and the prices of general antiques have not risen across the board. In many cases they have dropped based on market changes. Yea Storage Wars caused units to rise, but that is an INDUSTRY. People see that show and think they will be able to buy units for 2000, and sell them for 12000 like Dave Hestor does. Those people are in for a rude awakening. Most of those people will disappear with time cause they can't hack the real effort it takes to make money buying storage units. Just my opinion. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted January 11, 2012 Share #131 Posted January 11, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88thcollector Posted January 11, 2012 Share #132 Posted January 11, 2012 I cant imagine way any moral dealer would still deal with that scum bag? :thumbdown: I guess cash trumps all. :think: It is really a complex story. One of the two is a much more honest and decent man than the other. He probably did cross some lines but nothing like his partner. One was welcomed back by all; I don't think his partner ever will be. Notice that one name is mentioned a lot more than the other: http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132226&page=1 http://www.civilwarnews.com/archive/articles/indictments.htm As for the Pickett stuff, speaking only from my memory of long ago events, the heir was shopping the group around for something along the amount he was paid. I do not know if this was before or after the appraisal but I think it was before. He did call me and told me the story of how he had Pickett's stuff and was trying to sell it. It was way out of my league and area of interest and I referred him to a friend. I don't know what happened after that but I think he had tried to market if before the appraisal. I am not trying to defend anyone but just pointing out that most stories are more complex than the blurb on the network news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS44 Posted January 11, 2012 Share #133 Posted January 11, 2012 I think they really missed the boat on naming the new show. They should have fallen in line with the rest of them and called it "American War Wars" :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted January 11, 2012 Share #134 Posted January 11, 2012 It is really a complex story. One of the two is a much more honest and decent man than the other. He probably did cross some lines but nothing like his partner. One was welcomed back by all; I don't think his partner ever will be. Notice that one name is mentioned a lot more than the other: http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132226&page=1 http://www.civilwarnews.com/archive/articles/indictments.htm As for the Pickett stuff, speaking only from my memory of long ago events, the heir was shopping the group around for something along the amount he was paid. I do not know if this was before or after the appraisal but I think it was before. He did call me and told me the story of how he had Pickett's stuff and was trying to sell it. It was way out of my league and area of interest and I referred him to a friend. I don't know what happened after that but I think he had tried to market if before the appraisal. I am not trying to defend anyone but just pointing out that most stories are more complex than the blurb on the network news. I agree...there are always two sides of the story...I was posting on what I read from what FS posted. here is the link... wow what a mess. https://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&...f.osb&cad=b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMI88 Posted January 11, 2012 Share #135 Posted January 11, 2012 I was wondering if you can answer a question for me? I was told that if a person has an auction company come to their home to sell their estate they are supposed to be above board with them. Why I am asking is a couple of years ago I was at an auction and a very nice sports item sold. It was a pin from when the Baltimore Orioles won the championship back in 1894. The pin is a pretty rare and desirable piece and it sold in the $2400 range. I then heard one of auction employees say to another person that he informed the owner that it was an old fire department ceremony badge and the old girl did not know what she had and they had paid next to nothing for the item. Just wondering if they had a legal obligation to be honest with the owner in that situation? My understanding -- and I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV -- is that someone considered to be an "expert" has a legal responsibility not to take advantage of a member of the public. An expert is defined as someone who makes their living at appraising or selling certain items, in this case collectibles. So, for example, an expert offers someone $100 for an item they know is worth $1,000; potentially they could be sued for taking advantage. On the other hand, if the member of the public approaches them asking $100 for the item, the expert is under no obligation to correct their misconception. This obviously leaves a lot of gray areas. Who is an "expert"? How much profit are they reasonably allowed to make? It's questions like these that keep lawyers in business! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald Posted January 24, 2012 Share #136 Posted January 24, 2012 Hello Did anyone else see tonights episode where they "stole" the A-2 CBI flight jacket? The "Old Man" gave him a BS story and then the guy came down in price and they bought it. I know it is just a show, but with all the internet to check on prices ans places to sell, why do they go to a pawn shop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted January 24, 2012 Share #137 Posted January 24, 2012 My understanding -- and I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV -- is that someone considered to be an "expert" has a legal responsibility not to take advantage of a member of the public. An expert is defined as someone who makes their living at appraising or selling certain items, in this case collectibles. So, for example, an expert offers someone $100 for an item they know is worth $1,000; potentially they could be sued for taking advantage. On the other hand, if the member of the public approaches them asking $100 for the item, the expert is under no obligation to correct their misconception. This obviously leaves a lot of gray areas. Who is an "expert"? How much profit are they reasonably allowed to make? It's questions like these that keep lawyers in business! This has been covered in the law in some prominent cases involving Civil War militaria. Being an "expert" does not require you to pay more than someone who doesn't know squat. A buyer and seller each has responsibility to their own interests. Where it does make a difference is if someone hires you to appraise something: in that case you are representing their interests, not your own. So if you lied about the appraised value and then offered to buy it for that, you would be committing fraud. When I am buying from someone and they ask "what is it worth?" I respond that I can only tell them what I will pay, but if they want to hire me for $50 an hour I will become their appraiser. There are a lot of people who call me on the pretense of wanting to sell but when I get there it's clear they are looking for a free appraisal so they can list it on Craigslist or Ebay or wherever. Again, if you deal with someone as a buyer you are not their agent or adviser. You can offer whatever price you want and if the seller is an adult and accepts it, then it is a legal transaction. You cannot be sued for "paying too little." I try to offer a very fair price to widows and orphans, but if some picker has found a $500 item for $5 at the swap meet and wants to sell it for me, I'm going to try to get it as cheap as possible. I also try to buy cars, refrigerators, food, clothing and everything else as cheap as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted January 24, 2012 Share #138 Posted January 24, 2012 HelloDid anyone else see tonights episode where they "stole" the A-2 CBI flight jacket? The "Old Man" gave him a BS story and then the guy came down in price and they bought it. I know it is just a show, but with all the internet to check on prices ans places to sell, why do they go to a pawn shop! I watched it and the guy accepted the offer with no apparent guns pointed at his head. He seemed content to take their money. People often want a quick sale and it doesn't matter what kinds of prices are on the web: not everyone is an ebay dealer and as such they are seldom going to "retail price" for their collectibles. Instead they get a wholesale price from a dealer who have the skills and the outlet for retails sales, and not everything sells in a few days, so the seller walked away with a pile of cash while the Pawn Shop has that money tied up in the jacket (which also incurs its share of general store overhead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted February 12, 2012 Share #139 Posted February 12, 2012 Seems the Pawn boys did rather well on the A2 jacket.Brought $3208 on a $700 investment and as the old man says a hard sell and we will have it for a long time...........I figured at least they would have offered $1250 or paid knowing the jacket was a good seller (photos from goldand silverpawnebay) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted February 12, 2012 Share #140 Posted February 12, 2012 On another note did anyone see the American restoration program with the USMC helicopter helmet they restored for the vets grandson?? The helmet was in as worn condition.Original paint and markings.Granted ot was missing some of the avionics and interior pads.The guy wanted it "restored" to give to his grandfather who was a gunner in VietNam with a HML Marine Corps unit and had served in WW2 and Korea as well. They "restored" it to its glory by repainting and replicating all the original faint markings.Total cost $1800.00.You got to be kidding me.Rick stated it cost $900 in parts and $900 in paint and materials.Total cost on my Harley a couple years ago wa $100 for a paint job with flamed tank and fender with hand outlined flames.Granted he was doing me a favor and shaved off a few hundred as I paid cash and I took in the steel and he didnt have to disassemble. Seriously wouldnt it have been cheaper to buy a complete helmet and just paint it and leave the original one as is??Or take a full helmet and remove the electrics and put in the other helmet??Where the he!! do you pay $900 in parts when full double visor USN/USMC helmets are out there for a third of the money.They also added an oxy mask w/bayonet fittings and Im not sure it would have been appropriate as the vet flew in hueys then was a front seater in a Cobra. I know its the grandsons money but my god $1800 for a repainted helmet????The helmet ozzed history and coolness then was stripped and redone.I would of left it as is and done up a blank one and displayed then together.Some things are way better off left alone.The restore guys should have offered this option in my opinion if they are so intrested in history and preserving things.Total FAIL on both parties if you ask me. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted February 12, 2012 Share #141 Posted February 12, 2012 Seems the Pawn boys did rather well on the A2 jacket.Brought $3208 on a $700 investment and as the old man says a hard sell and we will have it for a long time...........I fiugured at least they would have offered $1250 or paid knowing the jacket was a good seller(photos from goldand silverpawnebay) I was a REAL tough sell... NO ONE wants jackets to non-bomber crewman.... LOL Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted February 12, 2012 Share #142 Posted February 12, 2012 Seems the Pawn boys did rather well on the A2 jacket.Brought $3208 on a $700 investment and as the old man says a hard sell and we will have it for a long time...........I figured at least they would have offered $1250 or paid knowing the jacket was a good seller How much did the Pawn Stars connection add to the sales price, $1,000, $1,500? Pawn Stars has a marketing outlet that can reap big benefits for them, but in an ebay auction that is a crap shoot. So, should they have paid based on what CBI A-2's typically sell for or what MIGHT happen in the best case scenario? I buy a lot and a I tell sellers that there is a range of values and I have to buy based on the low end. Would any of us have paid $1,250 for a jacket which we would sell several months later knowing that it might sell for the same price as these current highest completed ebay A2 CBI jacket auctions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted February 12, 2012 Share #143 Posted February 12, 2012 Granted the pawn connection may have had a part in it but if it was all profit because of the pawn connection why not sell it in the store??Get to meet the boys and your photo copy of a COA Realistically a $2500 0r so jacket on a dealer site???Dunno This jacket has a lot going for it as the pilot was a Hump pilot and the flag and chits on the back add to it also.I would glady buy it for the price of the two jackets posted in #142.They dont even compare to the one sold in my opnion. As far as ebay auctions there are several plain jackets that sell in the $700-$100 range especially if the condition and size are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted February 12, 2012 Share #144 Posted February 12, 2012 I assumed when I saw that jacket based on the patches and painting on it, that it would sell for at least $2500. I just think the excuse he made for getting the guy to come down on his price was " off base". Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted February 12, 2012 Share #145 Posted February 12, 2012 I assumed when I saw that jacket based on the patches and painting on it, that it would sell for at least $2500. I just think the excuse he made for getting the guy to come down on his price was " off base". Kurt Agreed Kurt. I know they are in "the business" but they portray themselves as professional buyers and appraisers.I know the sellers are the ones to o accept or decline said offers but at times it seems they are often told how much the item isnt worth and the store will struggle to nake a couple hundred on it.As with anything its only worth what some one will pay at a given moment.Im sure the sellers are happy as they have little or nothing in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW4AFB Posted February 12, 2012 Share #146 Posted February 12, 2012 On another note did anyone see the American restoration program with the USMC helicopter helmet they restored for the vets grandson?? The helmet was in as worn condition.Original paint and markings.Granted ot was missing some of the avionics and interior pads.The guy wanted it "restored" to give to his grandfather who was a gunner in VietNam with a HML Marine Corps unit and had served in WW2 and Korea as well. They "restored" it to its glory by repainting and replicating all the original faint markings.Total cost $1800.00.You got to be kidding me.Rick stated it cost $900 in parts and $900 in paint and materials.Total cost on my Harley a couple years ago wa $100 for a paint job with flamed tank and fender with hand outlined flames.Granted he was doing me a favor and shaved off a few hundred as I paid cash and I took in the steel and he didnt have to disassemble. Seriously wouldnt it have been cheaper to buy a complete helmet and just paint it and leave the original one as is??Or take a full helmet and remove the electrics and put in the other helmet??Where the he!! do you pay $900 in parts when full double visor USN/USMC helmets are out there for a third of the money.They also added an oxy mask w/bayonet fittings and Im not sure it would have been appropriate as the vet flew in hueys then was a front seater in a Cobra. I know its the grandsons money but my god $1800 for a repainted helmet????The helmet ozzed history and coolness then was stripped and redone.I would of left it as is and done up a blank one and displayed then together.Some things are way better off left alone.The restore guys should have offered this option in my opinion if they are so intrested in history and preserving things.Total FAIL on both parties if you ask me. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: I couldn't agree more---I just saw this episode today and couldn't believe they were going to strip down the helmet and re-do it...that bead machine made sure there wasn't a single scrap of original paint left---yikes....how's that a good thing? I'm a big fan of preservation but like brother doyle here, this episode left me shaking my head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted February 13, 2012 Share #147 Posted February 13, 2012 Agreed Kurt.I know they are in "the business" but they portray themselves as professional buyers and appraisers.= They are not appraisers nor do they do appraisals on the show: they bring in outside appraisers, but they are buyers only. When I go to buy and someone asks "what's it worth," I have to reply, "I can only tell you what I will pay for it." A fair deal is one in which the buyer and seller agree on a price while not under duress, and this was a fair deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted February 13, 2012 Share #148 Posted February 13, 2012 They are not appraisers nor do they do appraisals on the show: they bring in outside appraisers, but they are buyers only. When I go to buy and someone asks "what's it worth," I have to reply, "I can only tell you what I will pay for it." A fair deal is one in which the buyer and seller agree on a price while not under duress, and this was a fair deal. I also stated an item or (any item)is worth what some one will pay at that given moment. Yes,I agree,but in a sense they are an appraiser as they are asked what its worth or what they can get for it as there is an expectation from the seller that the buyer knows the value of an item.They do this all the time saying it worth x amount but I will pay x amount and come to terms.I cant imagine every pawn store has appraisers on call for every item they buy.They(appraiser) would have to charge a fee as Im sure the appraiser wont do this for free.The case here is its television and the appraisers are brought in in many cases to give a thumbs up or down to the items autheticity more so than to just give a dollar value. When I buy I will explain there may or may not be someone who will pay more as most of these items may have some what of a different value to a different individual.Some will quote on line prices which is the norm in todays world.I often suggest to them to contact said person as the selling price isnt what they pay and in all cases they will have to send the item before being paid.If the person sells it fine if not I move on.There is no shortage of things to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglerunner88 Posted February 21, 2012 Share #149 Posted February 21, 2012 Just saw the new episode of Paws Stars where a man (who's grandfather was in the 101st Airborne) brought in 26 original WWII YANK magazines to sell. Albeit all were from 1945 but one even had Lucille Ball as the featured pin-up girl and a few were all about VE day. And what was Rick's response? "Things like this just don't sell." So he passed on them and even remarked to the man that "you've been yanked" (ha ha). Are you kidding me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonK Posted February 21, 2012 Share #150 Posted February 21, 2012 Just saw the new episode of Paws Stars where a man (who's grandfather was in the 101st Airborne) brought in 26 original WWII YANK magazines to sell. Albeit all were from 1945 but one even had Lucille Ball as the featured pin-up girl and a few were all about VE day. And what was Rick's response? "Things like this just don't sell." So he passed on them and even remarked to the man that "you've been yanked" (ha ha). Are you kidding me?? In a pawn shop setting, or even an antique shop, Rick is most certainly right that they won't sell; or at least they will sit for a quite a while. While there is value, it's really a niche market. They sell on EBay, however not for much. Looking at completed EBay listings, a set of 22 from 1944-1945 sold for $55. So if Rick pay's 50% of that, while it's not a lot (meaning not a lot of money tied up in them), they surely will sit for a long time before someone comes into a shop to buy them. Especially when a collector can readily pick them up on EBay for a fraction of what the shop would probably sell them at. I hate to admit it, however when I watched this episode, I actually had to agree with Rick passing on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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