WWI USMC Painted Helmets with EGAs

[bobgee]

Interesting & unusual paint-job! I agree that's it's likely a post-WWI vet's piece, Hard to determine though when it might have been painted. Still an interesting variation. Any sign of a name on it? Hope it didn't cost as much as a true vintage USMC WWI lid!

Semper Fi......Bobgee

[williamsmilitaryrelics]

Interesting & unusual paint-job! I agree that's it's likely a post-WWI vet's piece, Hard to determine though when it might have been painted. Still an interesting variation. Any sign of a name on it? Hope it didn't cost as much as a true vintage USMC WWI lid!

Semper Fi......Bobgee

well , I'm agree about the paint job.. very cool looking, no name anywhere, was very very dirty when I got it, covered with some kind of greasy dust...

I guess the painting have been made post WWI, around the 20's...

Thanks

william

[MBMorley]

Hello there, I'm the guy that won the auction on Ebay for the 6th Machine gun BN uniform from the same seller that sold the 6th Machine gun BN helmet pictured . . . nice helmet, I wanted it very much but could not afford it and the uniform. :-(

[MBMorley]

Here are a few pictures of a U.S.M.C. 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 2nd Division Helmet I picked up recently. Unfortunately it is unnamed and there is no longer a liner or chinstrap present but it still makes for a nice display piece!

 

Upon close inspection the other day I noticed that at one time it looks as if there was another 5th regiment square painted on what is now the back of the helmet. The decal pictured is actually painted on what was originally the back of the helmet as indicated by the rear seam on the rim. Could it be that the original wearer of this helmet was a member of one of the other battalions in the 5th regiment when he first painted his helmet and later was transferred to the 3rd battalion? Or another scenario is that this helmet had two owners during it's time in the AEF. Any thoughts??

 

Here is a close up view of the washer/nut attaching the EGA to the front of the helmet. It's all correct blackened bronze or brass.

 

Here is a close up view of the early bronze EGA.

[USMC A5 Sniper Rifle]

Very nice helmets. Got to get one.

 

Jim

[teufelhunde.ret]

Very nice helmets. Got to get one.

 

Jim

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

&

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

Both of these are being sold by one of our forum members... s/f Darrell

[USMC A5 Sniper Rifle]

Thank you, Darrell. I need a 6th regiment helmet to go with my 6th Regiment rifle (ID'ed to a 3rd Bn Corporal through his records). I need to branch off like I need a good swift kick, but I like these helmets.

 

Jim

[Schnicklfritz]

I ran across this while surfing the web. Note the EGA sure looks like the supposed Ronson made EGA. According to what is written, the EGA appears to be original to the Marines helmet. Here's the link to the forum:

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...t%3D54%26um%3D1

 

overall shot

[teufelhunde.ret]

Mark , thx for posting. I've not seen any of these Art Metal Work (AKA - Ronson???) emblems on a helmet before. The link you have listed is certainly an interesting dialog and would love to see how it is punched thru & back of emblem - so forth. Here is a link to an EGA thread in the ref. sec. which Mike discusses this specific emblem in great detail.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...st&p=116813 Beyond this the emblem does exhibit a great deal of consistent wear about all surfaces/features, (esp the globe) this gives me some indication the emblem was added well "after the fact". Lets see what others say... s/f Darrell

[usmcaviator]

The EGA is the much more difficult to find service version of the "Ronson" or "Art Metal" piece. I believe that the post backed EGAs are of the WW1 period, with the pinbacks probably made out of existing or leftover stock for the WW2 era as sweetheart pieces. This specific one looks good to me, as does the helmet. Wear on the EGA may not always be consistent with the helmet, especially if the piece was previous salty from use on a favorite campaign hat that saw use (not many know this but the first elements of the 5th and 6th Regiment did go overseas with their campaign hats, but did not wear them in France or subsequently in Germany). So that is my guess. When viewing these helmets, it is the artwork and helmet condition that counts, it is gravy if the EGA is original and has the "right" wear, but it is so hard to tell for sure.

 

Mike

[Sgt Saunders]

I have an opportunity to pick up a WWI helmet with Marine Corp EGA. I know what a WWI US helmet it supposed to be set up like but I'm no an expert on USMC EGA's. I read somewhere that a real USMC helmet made for an EGA has a steel grommet lining the hole. I also read that the first helmets that the Marines modified for EGA simply got a nail hole poked through it to affix the device. But I will admit that I could be all wet here. Are they any other ways to tell? What did the Marines use for a EGA? Was it specific for a helmet or was a hat device used? Are there any dimensional layouts as to where the hole should be? The price is very reasonable ($XXX.XX), but is that a give away also? What should an un documented original WWI USMC with EGA go for these days? And I don't mean the crazy prices that are paid on Ebay. I did a search here on the sight but didn't find anything, but that doesn't mean that I search in the right forum. :think:

Thanks in advance for your answers to a knob head question.

[Bob Hudson]

Take a look at this thread and you will see that there was no standard for how to do this: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=30549

 

As for values: well, 99.9 percent of these are impossible to authenticate so you have to decide how cool it looks and how much you're willing to spend for that coolness.

 

As for crazy prices on ebay: well it's my experience that overall ebay prices on collectibles are about half what would be charged by non-ebay dealers - yes you at item once in a while that spikes way up there, but I find and sell some pretty scarce militaria and the prices I get on ebay are never what I see at shows and non-bay online dealers.

 

I found an interesting article at http://www.militarytrader.com/article/MYTH..._ABOUT_HELMETS/ about some helmet myths including this:

 

MYTH #6. The USMC Wore EGA Insignia On Its World War I Helmets

The myth: The “Devil Dogs” wanted the Germans to know who they were facing, and many members of the USMC in France in 1918 attached the Eagle-Globe-Anchor insignia to their helmets. Other times these are called “China Marine Helmets.”

The truth: There are a lot of American Model 1917 helmets with the EGA attached to the helmets, but buyer beware. When this was done and by whom should be questioned. There is little photographic evidence of the Marines attaching the EGA on helmets in either France or China.

The exception to the rule: Marines did wear the EGA on the Model 1917A1 helmet, but this was not a widespread practice, either.

 

Interesting: we do know that all those painted up WWI Army helmets most likely got painted up on the ship enroute back home after the end of the war. Maybe it's the same with most of those USMC helmets with nicely painted insignia and EGA's. The article shows a plain-Jane helmet with the EGA stuck squarely on the front where you'd expect it to be and opines that if Marines wore an EGA on their helmet in combat, that's the way they probably did it.

 

Myself, I think decorated WWI helmets are a form of trench art and unless you have some way to know it's actual history, you buy it for its artistic value, not because it may have gone to war like that.

[Sgt Saunders]

Thanks for all the info and links. I have not seen the helmet yet, but it has nothing painted on it, just the EGA attached. Maybe it's a 1917A1? Was the EGA authorized for the 1917A1 or was it still a personal modification?

[teufelhunde.ret]

....I have not seen the helmet yet, but it has nothing painted on it, just the EGA attached. Maybe it's a 1917A1?

Photo the photo's when you get them - to many models were used to make an educated guess.

[usmcaviator]

E-bay prices are not crazy, occasionally crazy yes, but I have sold USMC helmets on and off E-bay and the prices are about the same, especially good stuff. I have regularly sold painted WW1 steel pots from the $800-$1200 range for an average 5th or 6th regiment helmet (painted w/ or w/out EGA). Exceptional helmets, ones that may be named, or have exceptional art can go much higher, like $3,000 for an intricate one. A WW1 helmet that is just punched with an EGA may go in the $300 range. All that said, there are many forgeries and like forum support stated no sure way of authentication, you have to be happy with the paint, art, age, and overall "look".

 

Mike

[Leatherneck72]

Take a look at this thread and you will see that there was no standard for how to do this: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=30549

 

As for values: well, 99.9 percent of these are impossible to authenticate so you have to decide how cool it looks and how much you're willing to spend for that coolness.

 

As for crazy prices on ebay: well it's my experience that overall ebay prices on collectibles are about half what would be charged by non-ebay dealers - yes you at item once in a while that spikes way up there, but I find and sell some pretty scarce militaria and the prices I get on ebay are never what I see at shows and non-bay online dealers.

 

I found an interesting article at http://www.militarytrader.com/article/MYTH..._ABOUT_HELMETS/ about some helmet myths including this:

 

MYTH #6. The USMC Wore EGA Insignia On Its World War I Helmets

The myth: The “Devil Dogs” wanted the Germans to know who they were facing, and many members of the USMC in France in 1918 attached the Eagle-Globe-Anchor insignia to their helmets. Other times these are called “China Marine Helmets.”

The truth: There are a lot of American Model 1917 helmets with the EGA attached to the helmets, but buyer beware. When this was done and by whom should be questioned. There is little photographic evidence of the Marines attaching the EGA on helmets in either France or China.

The exception to the rule: Marines did wear the EGA on the Model 1917A1 helmet, but this was not a widespread practice, either.

 

Interesting: we do know that all those painted up WWI Army helmets most likely got painted up on the ship enroute back home after the end of the war. Maybe it's the same with most of those USMC helmets with nicely painted insignia and EGA's. The article shows a plain-Jane helmet with the EGA stuck squarely on the front where you'd expect it to be and opines that if Marines wore an EGA on their helmet in combat, that's the way they probably did it.

 

Myself, I think decorated WWI helmets are a form of trench art and unless you have some way to know it's actual history, you buy it for its artistic value, not because it may have gone to war like that.

 

Actually, there are numerous WW1 photos taken in France summer of 1918 that clearly show the EGA being worn on the combat helmet. It wasn't widespread, but some US Marines definitely faced Germans wearing the EGA on their steel pot. Agreed, most were painted for victory parades on the ship ride home, or on occupation duty. On many 5th Regiment helmets there are two holes..one for where the EGA originally went, and the other for where it was moved to after the paintjob for the parades. That is clearly indicative of the EGA being worn before the ride home, i.e., in France.

[teufelhunde.ret]

... clearly indicative of the EGA being worn before the ride home, i.e., in France.

as shown here...

[normaninvasion]

Also would like to add that Col. John W. Thomason Jr. sketches of Marines in Europe ,during WW1, are shown sporting egas on their lids.

[Motivator1]

Hello all- I have a few 4th Brigade helmets- two have initials carved or written on them. I have a 5th Marine Regimental Headquarters Company helmet with what appears to be "HMH" or "HWH" written on the strap. I also have a 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines helmet with "HVL" carved into the top. Does anyone have access/interest to period rosters? I have photographed them, but their size exceeds the 150K limit- I will try to figure out how to reduce them for posting. Thanks in advance for any support. S/F Mark

[Motivator1]

Hello all- I have a few 4th Brigade helmets- two have initials carved or written on them. I have a 5th Marine Regimental Headquarters Company helmet with what appears to be "HMH" or "HWH" written on the strap. I also have a 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines helmet with "HVL" carved into the top. Does anyone have access/interest to period rosters? I have photographed them, but their size exceeds the 150K limit- I will try to figure out how to reduce them for posting. Thanks in advance for any support. S/F Mark

[Motivator1]

Here is the 2/5 helmet- "WVL" lightly scratched on the center top. Anyone have access to a late summer 1919 roster? Tx, Mark

[Brig]

brought 1900 on eBay last week...

 

 

[jagjetta]

Greetings,

I would like to ask the assistance of the EGA-knowledgeable. The attached photo is of an EGA on a M1917 helmet with painted insignia of 13th Regiment 5th Marine Brigade. Whereas the helmet and painting are all convincing, to my untrained EGA eye, this appears to be a pattern 1937 EGA? Is that correct? The interior reveals that it has split pin prongs for attaching rather than a screw post.

 

THanks for considering my question. I am so far out of my comfort zone when it comes to EGAs that I just defer to those of you on this forum who really know and understand the differrences.

 

John

 

Back:

 

 

 

THanks for considering my question. I am so far out of my comfort zone when it comes to EGAs that I just defer to those of you on this forum who really know and understand the differrences.

 

John

[usmcaviator]

The EGA you have shown is a late 1930's to Korean War Era piece. It looks to be WW2 vintage. This emblem did not come with prong backs that I know of. The fact that you say it is on a 5th Brigade helmet really sheds doubt on the whole piece, as 5th brigade helmets were generally just painted with the respective battalion insignia. This may be a case where a real WW1 helmet has simply had the wrong era piece attached sometime throughout its life. Photographs of the whole helmet may shed more light as to it authenticity.

 

Mike

[Belleauwood]

usmcaviator said:

The EGA you have shown is a late 1930's to Korean War Era piece. It looks to be WW2 vintage. This emblem did not come with prong backs that I know of. The fact that you say it is on a 5th Brigade helmet really sheds doubt on the whole piece, as 5th brigade helmets were generally just painted with the respective battalion insignia. This may be a case where a real WW1 helmet has simply had the wrong era piece attached sometime throughout its life. Photographs of the whole helmet may shed more light as to it authenticity.

 

Mike

 

What's the verdict on this one? 1920's EGA and on there forever. Would appreciate all input

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

 

 

I fell pretty good with it. Any one else?