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Army to Revisit "Pinks and Greens?"


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My only suggestion would be shiny gold buttons (not the antiqued ones shown here) to match the collar brass and buckle.

 

Agreed, if they want the WW2 look the gilt buttons are part of that. Also the stripes look "wrong" to me without the dark blue background. Looks sharp overall, though.

 

Justin B.

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Note how the SMA is wearing the crusher. It's pulled much further down than they usually wore them in WW2, but that's a reflection of changes in how the uniform is worn today v/s the 40s.

Man, I really like that uniform. Good to see him wearing that, as that supports the possibility that this might come to pass.

I also agree with everyone else about the buttons. Make em' shiny!

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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Uniform looks great but a few points:

First of all, what is with the cap device? It almost looks like it has a wreath around it - does the SMA get a unique cap device or is that some trick of the light that's making it look like that?

 

EDIT: Should have Googled first. The SMA does indeed have his own cap device:

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5c/SMACap1.jpg/200px-SMACap1.jpg

 

Second: Much as I like this uniform (and I do!) the problem with Army dress uniforms has never been in the design, it's always been in the execution.

 

IOW, they spend big $$ to come up with a tailor made "example" that gets everyone oooh-ing and ahh-ing but when Private Joe Snuffy goes through Basic Training and gets issued a uniform, it ends up looking like a sack of crap because unlike the high-qualify, tailor-made uniform that SMA Daley is wearing, the issue uniform will be made from cheap, lowest-bidder materials, and soldiers will be rush-rushed through the issue process with little or no attempt made to actually make the uniform fit.

 

And let's face it, there's no 18 or 19 year old kid out there who knows how to have a suit properly fitted. The Army needs to take the time and spend the money to have the soldiers' uniforms properly tailored. Uniforms are important to a military organization - you have to look no further than any depiction of a US Marine in dress blues to see that.

 

It wasn't until I became an E-6 that I finally realized that if I didn't want to look like a rumpled lump of crap, I needed to put some effort (and some money) into my dress uniform. I bought a commercial-made (not DPAA issue) green jacket that was made of superior materials and then had it properly tailored to fit. That was my "retirement uniform" and I'll likely never get another one but unlike the poorly-made issue uniform I had for the first decade or so of my career, this one fits and looks good.

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

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So there appear to be at least two different versions of this uniform. The ones from the AUSA convention feature a jacket with shiny gold buttons, no belt on the blouse and no pleat on the upper pockets.

 

The version the SMA is wearing has the belt, antiqued or bronze-looking buttons, and pleated pockets. I think the SMA's version looks better although I concur that the shiny gold buttons should be retained.

 

My only concern about the belt is that on some soldiers it's going to accentuate their waistline which will negatively affect the appearance. SMA is tall an skinny so the jacket looks good on him but a soldier who is shorter or heavier (but still within Army Weight standards) is not going to look as good.

 

Having said that, I know the USMC "alpha" green uniform features a waist belt so if they can make it work, the Army should be able to. I'm assuming that the female version will not feature a waist belt, that would not look good unless the female in question had a very, very slim figure (and most women in the Army don't.)

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

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One other change I'd love to see on the class-b version is to go back to tucking the tie in between the 2nd and 3rd shirt button.

 

First of all, it keeps the tie out of the way.

 

Second, it's a very "military" way to wear a tie, something that has no counterpart in the civilian world.

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

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  • 4 weeks later...

I JUST found out about this. I thought it was a joke, but it obviously isn't. At first, I didn't like it. The Canadians and British have uniforms that are pretty damned close. However, if they ditch the stripes and revert to the more historically accurate OD on black, I would be all for it. Another issue is that the pinks were never used by enlisted troops. I understand the reasoning to expand it to all, but a bit weird nonetheless. Those stripes have to change!

 

It is kinda backwards when you think about it. I would be happy for the US Army to drop half of the silly badges on the ASU and return the SSI to them.

 

-Ski

In Memory Of......
Pte Harold Griffiths, 1805, 1/6th Manchester Regt, KIA June 4th, 1915 in Gallipoli
Cpl Isaac Judges, 40494, 6th East Yorkshire Regt, KIA October 3rd, 1917 in Ypres
May they rest in peace.....

MSgt - USAF Retired

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This news item seems to suggest they're going to make the change after all. I sure hope so (but I remember that Army Times was often wrong about a lot of things, when I read it often on active duty):
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/12/27/new-in-2018-army-decision-coming-on-return-of-pinks-and-greens-uniform/

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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Here is an example of the proposed Pinks and Green uniform alongside an enlisted uniform circa WW2. This exhibit was posted yesterday in the Command hallway of the US Army Sergeant's Major Academy at Fort Bliss, Texas

 

A few disclaimers: Insignia and footwear as well as headgear is still underdetermined at this time. Army decides this November/December 2018 during the Army Navy game. This is all the information I have at this time.

 

We (The US Army NCO Museum) took the initiative based on pictures and other information to come up with this display. Many NCO's were not aware that the original pinks and greens was an Officer uniform. This exhibit has raised many questions that currently we can't answer. Stayed tuned for further updates..

 

We modified a WW2 era officer's uniform (personal one, not museum property) and removed the Officer's cuff braid. We contacted a vendor back East (Soldier Clothing and Equipment NCI, AKA PEO Soldier) who worked with Natick Research Labs , and they provided the brown colored chevrons and service stripes. The patches were standard issued patches for 2nd ACR, and the US Army Sergeant's Major Academy, as well as the Ranger tab. All other decorations are standard clothing and sales issued dress uniform accessories.

 

The proposal is that this uniform if approved will be the new "old" dress greens and the current dress blues aka Army Service Uniform (ASU) will be used for formal occasions like they were in the 70s 80's and 90's before the Army dress green uniform was replaced.

 

 

Leigh

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"Pain is only Weakness Leaving the Body"

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr
US Army (Retired)

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In case everyone is wondering what the circular badge is on the breast pocket. This is the Army's Senior Instructor badge, awarded to Soldiers and Civilians who meet the criteria as instructors.

 

Leigh

"Pain is only Weakness Leaving the Body"

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr
US Army (Retired)

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Whats the point of all this. NOBODY wears this type of uniform. AllI see in airports( when I do see a uniform) is "hide it all BDU, ACU, or whatever they are called. I dont think you could get the average service member into his service uniform if you tried.

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If this uniform were to be adopted, is the proposal that the blues would go back to optional for enlisted?

 

Justin,

 

Good question, at this time, we are not sure.. Will advise..

 

Leigh

 

"Pain is only Weakness Leaving the Body"

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr
US Army (Retired)

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The USN cancelled their proposed change to introduce the service dress khaki uniform. It had been discussed for a while, test uniforms evaluated, and eventually decided that another uniform was not needed for CPOs and Officers. The Navy was unwilling to require a small part of the service to purchase new uniforms. Do not think in the budget that the Army will get to re-uniform an entire service.. A nice experiment though..

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Justin,

 

Good question, at this time, we are not sure.. Will advise..

 

 

Thanks. My guess is it will have to be that way, they won't be able to come up with the money for two issue "dress" uniforms. The Marines issue both blues and greens, but that cost has been built in for a long time. The new P&G will apparently be more expensive than the ASU, too.

 

 

The USN cancelled their proposed change to introduce the service dress khaki uniform. It had been discussed for a while, test uniforms evaluated, and eventually decided that another uniform was not needed for CPOs and Officers. The Navy was unwilling to require a small part of the service to purchase new uniforms. Do not think in the budget that the Army will get to re-uniform an entire service.. A nice experiment though..

 

Also happened with the USAF new/retro service dress project a few years back. Lots of money tied up in these decisions!

 

Justin B.

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Do not think in the budget that the Army will get to re-uniform an entire service..

 

That's what everyone said about the blues and the berets and we all know what happened there (headgear that was almost universally despised by solders). I'm so glad I left active duty just as the berets were mandated for wear. I was issued one and it never left the plastic wrapper!

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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Justin,

 

Good question, at this time, we are not sure.. Will advise..

 

Leigh

 

 

Leigh: Since you seem to be "in the know" or at least "in the loop" has there been any discussion of the class b uniform and whether that would go back to some form of khaki shirt and pants? As I said above, I'd particularly like to see the Army go back to the WWII tradition of tucking the necktie into the shirt.

 

Also, any thought of bringing back the "soft" overseas cap? Not everybody in the Army needs to look like a B-17 pilot. ;) IMO the "50 mission crush" cap should be something limited to aviators (as it was during WWII, although I think McArthur liked to rock the "crush" cap as well.)

 

The "soft" overseas cap (as opposed to the stiff "garrison cap" from the old dress greens) looks sharp, is comfortable and cheap to make.

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

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So I like this (well, I like anything that replaces the blue ASU, that uniform is hideous) but let me throw this out to the group:

 

With all the talk about resurrecting the Officer's Pinks and Greens WWII uniform, am I the only one who actually prefers the simpler enlisted uniform of WWII? Not saying the P&G isn't a nice uniform but I think the enlisted service uniform looks as good if not better.

 

To me having khaki trousers (the "pinks") on the uniform makes no sense unless that becomes part of a khaki class B uniform.

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

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Martin,

 

Some good questions that we here have also been wondering. Here are a few more shots of the uniform. At this time we still do not know if the crusher style cap or garrison cap will be utilized, nor do we know if the class B or just the shirt will be an option. At the AUSA convention one of the "models" was walking around the exhibit floor with the Class B version, so this may also be a possibility minus decorations.. More to follow on this as well.. Will be happy to let everyone know as I find out hard info..

 

Here is another FYI, the branch of service insignia on the Officer on the right side is known as the Logistics branch...

 

Leigh

 

 

 

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"Pain is only Weakness Leaving the Body"

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr
US Army (Retired)

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