Army to Revisit "Pinks and Greens?"

[Teamski]

Actually, the dark buttons may be historically accurate.

 

My uncle's WW II overcoat had dark plastic buttons. That coat was cut down as sort of a waist coat that went perfectly with his Ike jacket -- wonder if that's something we'll see next.

 

 

IIRC plastic buttons were only used by the USAAF as an economy measure. The buttons should be bright.

 

-Ski

[flyboy53]

Not to split hairs here, but my uncle was a sergeant assigned to an ordinance depot unit of the 3rd Army. He was on the fourth wave at Normandy but as some sort wheeled vehicle driver and survived the Battle of the Bulge but with severe frost bite -- Not Army Air Forces.

[doyler]

Only seen the plastic buttons on over coats over the years....never on a uniform.The over coat buttons are large then uniform buttons.

 

I even have a WW2 era over coat with WW1 style blackened bronze buttons.It was war time they used what they had.The plactic were just economy buttons.

[Justin B.]

Yeah, service uniform buttons were "gold or gold color metal" after 1926. Overcoat buttons were plastic or, before that, vegetable ivory.

[patches]

Are youse talking about this? EM Overcoat buttons?

 

 

If so the it was merely a WWII Economy thing, OD Bakelight, started as early as 1942,as buttons put on by manufactures on the Enlisted Overcoat to be issued throughout the Army (To of course included the Army Air Corps, cause it was, well, a Branch of the U.S. Army) before (1942) and after (1946) were brass. These OD Bakelight buttons were used on the M1926 Coat as well, but those are not typical, OD ones however on the overcoat were standard it would seem.

 

[ScottG]

 

[ScottG]

 

 

 

There seemed to be a general understanding - maybe unspoken? - that weapons qualification and driver badges were OK for junior enlisted personnel who didn't have much else to put on their uniforms, but once a soldier has been an NCO for awhile he has enough other "bling" on his uniform that he doesn't need to wear his bolo badges* as they were called.

 

 

 

Having been in several units that had the same practices I can fully understand where you are coming from. That said, Any soldier who earned a driver badge while on the roads of Iraq or Afghanistan fully deserves the right to wear them and wear them proudly. I would even extend that to the mechanic badge if it was earned in country having seen many of them working to clean the remains of their friends out of a vehicle to get it serviceable again. With all of the new tech, we have a new style of war, and many who would have otherwise been in rear areas now find themselves just as exposed to combat as an 11 series soldier. Scott

[Teamski]

I have seen service coats with the plastic buttons and these are the standard 7/8"buttons that weren't used on the overcoat (1 1/8"). WAC buttons were also issued in plastic. I do accept that these are the exception and not the standard issue buttons....

 

-Ski

[zzyzzogeton]

They really only have to go check out Texas A&M's cadet program, as those P&Gs are made from thinner materials (for that crushing heat they have) but still look decent. In fact, I use a former A&M cadet cap with my WW2 officer/war correspondent P&Gs for living history.

Oddly, you hardly ever see surplus A&M uniforms getting out into the public. I heard about a surplus place in College Station many years ago and called them, ordering a class A jacket and a visor cap. the jacket wasn't up to my standards for living history, though, and I can't recall ever hearing of anyone getting P&Gs from an A&M cadet for that.

But the longer this goes in in theory, the less I think they'll actually do it. usually, these changes happen pretty fast, and the rumor mill doesn't have long to catch up before people read in Army Times that they're coming any day. The blues and ACUs came pretty fast like that if memory serves.

 

The reason A&M uniforms are seldom available is that the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets Uniform Distribution Center issues the uniforms to the Cadets AND maintains a very strict accounting of them for cost reduction issues. We are issued our initial corps insignia, but must purchase replacements, extras and "advancement insignia".

 

If a Cadet leaves the Corps (drops out or graduates), ALL uniforms and uniform accessories are to be turned in, with the exception of head gear, shoes, boots and gloves. This is to reduce costs - the uniform items are reissued to incoming Cadets the next year. The uniforms are re-issued until they fail inspection. By that time, they are well worn and usually just trashed. Assuming a set of uniforms makes it through 3 Cadets, that is 12 years of wear. Obviously, certain items are worn less often than others, but they all take a lot of stress.

 

If a departing Cadet has lost an item, he/she MUST pay FULL NEW PRICE for the item. If a zip (senior) wishes to keep his uniforms, he/she is only charged about 10% of the NEW price. Most of us keep our P&G Service Dress A coat. Our boot pants (jodhpurs) are private purchase, as are the cavalry boots.

 

A Cadet who stays in all 4 years only exchanges uniform parts when the previously issued parts no longer fit or exhibit wear. I had to be re-issued nearly all my uniforms my pisshead (sophomore) due to a really late growth spurt at age 19 - I went from 5'-3" to 5'-6" my fish (freshman) year. Came back after the summer break and all my pants were high waters and the wrist bones were exposed below the sleeves. Got assigned a few demerits over that issue.

[zzyzzogeton]

They really only have to go check out Texas A&M's cadet program, as those P&Gs are made from thinner materials (for that crushing heat they have) but still look decent. In fact, I use a former A&M cadet cap with my WW2 officer/war correspondent P&Gs for living history.

Oddly, you hardly ever see surplus A&M uniforms getting out into the public. I heard about a surplus place in College Station many years ago and called them, ordering a class A jacket and a visor cap. the jacket wasn't up to my standards for living history, though, and I can't recall ever hearing of anyone getting P&Gs from an A&M cadet for that.

But the longer this goes in in theory, the less I think they'll actually do it. usually, these changes happen pretty fast, and the rumor mill doesn't have long to catch up before people read in Army Times that they're coming any day. The blues and ACUs came pretty fast like that if memory serves.

 

The reason A&M uniforms are seldom available is that the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets Uniform Distribution Center issues the uniforms to the Cadets AND maintains a very strict accounting of them for cost reduction issues. We are issued our initial corps insignia, but must purchase replacements, extras and "advancement insignia".

 

If a Cadet leaves the Corps (drops out or graduates), ALL uniforms and uniform accessories are to be turned in, with the exception of head gear, shoes, boots and gloves. This is to reduce costs - the uniform items are reissued to incoming Cadets the next year. The uniforms are re-issued until they fail inspection. By that time, they are well worn and usually just trashed. Assuming a set of uniforms makes it through 3 Cadets, that is 12 years of wear. Obviously, certain items are worn less often than others, but they all take a lot of stress.

 

If a departing Cadet has lost an item, he/she MUST pay FULL NEW PRICE for the item. If a zip (senior) wishes to keep his uniforms, he/she is only charged about 10% of the NEW price. Most of us keep our P&G Service Dress A coat. Our boot pants (jodhpurs) are private purchase, as are the cavalry boots.

 

A Cadet who stays in all 4 years only exchanges uniform parts when the previously issued parts no longer fit or exhibit wear. I had to be re-issued nearly all my uniforms my pisshead (sophomore) due to a really late growth spurt at age 19 - I went from 5'-3" to 5'-6" my fish (freshman) year. Came back after the summer break and all my pants were high waters and the wrist bones were exposed below the sleeves. Got assigned a few demerits over that issue.

[McDermut99]

Trump: New Army Greens uniforms ‘were very expensive'

 

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2019/04/19/trump-new-army-greens-uniforms-were-very-expensive/?utm_source=clavis

 

President Trump touted the Army's new service uniform at a White House event on Thursday, calling out its distinctive belt and telling an audience that the uniform is “very expensive.”

During remarks in celebration of the Wounded Warrior Project Soldier Ride, Trump listed achievements in bolstering the U.S.'s military might during his administration, including new uniform for soldiers.

“We’re rebuilding our military like never before. Brand new fighter jets. Brand new ships of all kinds. Every soldier has the best equipment,” he said. “In the Army, we’re even getting new uniforms, and those beautiful new uniforms with the belt. It was a big deal ― the belt.”

The Army did spend time going back and forth about the belt ― first, whether it should be brought back at all on the World War II era-inspired uniform, and then deciding to give the buckle a subdued finish, rather than shiny brass.

“And if you think those uniforms were inexpensive, they were very expensive,” he added. “They were very. But they wanted it and we got it.

A total budget line has not so far been available for the new service uniform, which is still in the field testing phase. Officials have said that the program will be cost-neutral.

A final contract award is expected later this year, but there are still details to work out, like the precise textile blend of the shirt, an executive with the company producing the prototypes told Army Times earlier this month.

Sergeant Major of the Army Dan Dailey told Army Times in 2018 that higher-quality, longer-lasting materials might increase the price of the Greens over the current blue Army Service Uniform, but that cost savings would come from the way it’s issued.

For example, leadership made the decision ahead of the uniform’s official November 2018 approval to begin issuing custom Greens to soldiers when they report to their first units of assignment.

That way, the Army can save on alterations for soldiers whose weights fluctuate between basic training and their first duty stations, requiring alterations, and completely do away with eating the cost of soldiers who drop out during initial entry training.

Of about 110,000 soldiers who report for basic training every year, 6,000 of them will go home before advanced individual training.

“By the time they go from AIT to their first unit, that number drops down to about 94,000,” Col. Stephen Thomas, PEO Soldier’s protection and individual equipment program manager, told reporters in November.

The Army expects to begin issuing the uniform in 2020, giving currently serving soldiers until 2028 to phase out their blues as a service uniform and buy the new set.

 

[McDermut99]

Some better examples of various insignia being worn on officers and SNCO uniforms:

 

 

Maj. Gen. Frank Muth, second from left, head of Army Recruiting Command, visited Fenway Park in Boston on April 12 with a group of recruiters from the New England Recruiting Battalion, all sporting their new Army Greens service uniforms. (Army)

[atb]

Those service caps are pretty awful. I hope the regular final production/issue versions more closely mimic the WWII versions.

[Skysoldier80]

Here is my two cents... After 21 years of current service and still in, I am mortified by the amount of money that I have had to spend on Uniforms. Yes it is great that after 10 years the Army went with a uniform the the majority wanted, but it is freaking ridiculous that have to spend a crap ton of money or more uniform stuff for a freaking DA Photo. Screw new uniforms!!!

[patches]

Those service caps are pretty awful. I hope the regular final production/issue versions more closely mimic the WWII versions.

Yeah kinda look Latin American right

[MattS]

Those service caps are pretty awful. I hope the regular final production/issue versions more closely mimic the WWII versions.

 

Agreed. They look like the Chinese repro crusher caps that have a large square piece of plastic behind the cap badge.

 

 

See: https://www.amazon.com/U-S-WWII-Officer-Visor-Crusher/dp/B004U1XXHW

[Old Marine]

I have to agree those caps are awful.

[copper252]

I like how the General is wearing only his top 5 ribbons. It would look better if every soldier were wear that. Most soldiers in WWII only 6 ribbons at max.

[Ant1942]

I like how the General is wearing only his top 5 ribbons. It would look better if every soldier were wear that. Most soldiers in WWII only 6 ribbons at max.

I agree, the multiple rows of ribbons (like 3 or more) on soldiers makes them look like dictators seen in North Korea and Iran, or Curly in the Three Stooges when he portrays/spoofs Herman Goering lol

[Teamski]

I FULLY agree that the army needs to ditch the crushers as they were not issue and look terrible. Also, they need to address the stripes as the color of them look too much like Canadian army stripes. I also think the female cap should be the female service cap from WWII rather than the male's as the cap badge looks about half the size of her head!

 

-Ski

[tarheel1]

I have a stupid question...Now that this "WWII Style Pinks & Greens" Uniform is the New Army uniform, how will that effect WWII Reenactors and the wearing of WWII Pinks & Greens while out in public and especially at WWII events that are held on military posts? I can see confusion by the general public, confusion by active duty personnel and accusations of "stolen valor/wannabes" etc. (and yes I know the WWII EM uniform is different). Just curious.

 

Th1

[Spathologist]

I like how the General is wearing only his top 5 ribbons. It would look better if every soldier were wear that. Most soldiers in WWII only 6 ribbons at max.

 

He has a Master Army Aviator Badge, anything else is pretty much superfluous...

 

I knew MG Muth as a lieutenant in flight school and as a platoon leader in Nomad Troop, 4/3 ACR. I was in Stetson Troop.

[McDermut99]

I have a stupid question...Now that this "WWII Style Pinks & Greens" Uniform is the New Army uniform, how will that effect WWII Reenactors and the wearing of WWII Pinks & Greens while out in public and especially at WWII events that are held on military posts? I can see confusion by the general public, confusion by active duty personnel and accusations of "stolen valor/wannabes" etc. (and yes I know the WWII EM uniform is different). Just curious.

 

Th1

 

Not a stupid question at all. I don't believe that WWII reenactors wearing the army officer uniform will be mistaken for active duty simply because period WWII uniforms (and even the repro officer uniform WWII impressions sells) look 10x's better than what the army has just rolled out.

 

All joking aside, the WWII uniforms had noticeably different colors that these new uniforms, as well as stripe color as mentioned above, insignia layout, buttons, and such.

[Jamecharles]

...after all, if they re-use the old pattern wouldn't be more fascinating?
The men's visors for women are terrible.

 

GS

[T Ambrosini]

My first impression of the new cover was that it looked like a banana republic dictator's headwear. I'm of the mind that they look sloppy and don't project a military appearance. Back to the drawing board! Also, I feel bad for the people who are feeling the financial pinch of purchasing new uniform items. In 24 years in the USAF, I too had many occasions to drop some coin on new uniform items.... I can't say I ever happily spent my pay for that.