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Army to Revisit "Pinks and Greens?"


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As much as I like the look of WW2 era uniforms, bringing them back seems too anachronistic.

 

too anachronistic? US military uniforms reached their peak during wwii. Navy and Marine corps still wear the same service uniforms they've had since the 1920s.

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Mostly talking about pinks and greens here.

yeah, and I'm referencing the fact that pinks and greens are the same age as other services uniforms that are still in service, but they are somehow anachronistic, iyo.

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yeah, and I'm referencing the fact that pinks and greens are the same age as other services uniforms that are still in service, but they are somehow anachronistic, iyo.

 

The big difference, of course, being that they did not abandon those uniforms for 60-odd years and then bring them back. I can see how something could be considered anachronistic after that length of time.
It will be very interesting if this uniform becomes official. The usual historical pattern has been that service or working uniforms become dress uniforms as they are supplanted by more functional/practical items. But I can't think of an example of a US service ever doing a "throwback" to an earlier style of dress or semi-dress uniform. The reversion after the USN Zumwalt blues, I guess, but that was only after a few years.

Justin B.

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The Navy can't go retro if they haven't updated the uniforms in decades. Bell bottoms, for example...

:lol:

 

It will be very interesting if this uniform becomes official. The usual historical pattern has been that service or working uniforms become dress uniforms as they are supplanted by more functional/practical items.

 

Look at this: https://terminallance.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/2014-07-22-Strip_335_Dressing_Up_web.gif

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

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That's funny right there...

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2010sh the USN tried to revive the service dress khaki uniform for CPOs and Os. It did not take root and was scuttled after a few test years. The service dress khaki ( 3 button coat) withered on the vine. The khaki dress was eliminated in the great 1975 uniform experiment..

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2010sh the USN tried to revive the service dress khaki uniform for CPOs and Os. It did not take root and was scuttled after a few test years. The service dress khaki ( 3 button coat) withered on the vine. The khaki dress was eliminated in the great 1975 uniform experiment..

Speaking of Navy, my favorite navy uniform was the service dress gray.

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May be off topic here, but an observation concerning the USN and its uniforms. The USN wears a short sleeve shirt and black trousers as an everyday service uniform. I do not see them jumping back into the khaki coat for O & CPO. Tried and failed..

 

The CPO & O service and dress whites situation might have been handled a bit differently. They recently mandated that women would be required to shift to the choker style whites, the basic same design as the males. The current style white coat is a hold over from the early 1900s. My opinion would have been to adopt a single breasted, 4 button collar and lapel version similar to the womens' existing uniform. The hard shoulder marks worn as similar to the CG, CPOs wear rating badges and hashmarks. Uniform in appearance..

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To me the new proposed uniform just dont have that "look" of the WW2 pinks.The material don't have the look or cut.Plus pinks were an officer only thing in WW2.

 

The whole suit looks like a botched UPS drivers uniform.

 

I don't see the need to keep changing stuff that isn't broke.The costs to the individual has to be a never ending issue.

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Bill,

 

You are correct, it is indeed a maternity uniform. Some good conversation about the "proposed" uniform. This has not been officially adopted yet. It is to be revealed later this year in Nov/Dec 2018 around the time of the Army Navy game. There has been much speculation and questions, and as we come aware of more information and updates I will pass what I know on to all of you.

 

One question that has been brought up by some of the forum members is about wearing airborne ovals. The "models" (Soldier's) that were on the floor at the AUSA convention showing the "Pinks and Greens" uniforms were not wearing any, and I did not see any of the Soldier's being Airborne qualified. I did see several who wore Air Assault wings but again no ovals.

 

Once I have a firm confirmation about the wearing of ovals I will pass this information along.

 

Another question has been brought up about the headgear. Will airborne qualified soldiers on jump status and assigned to airborne units continue to wear the maroon beret? Will Rangers continue with the tan beret and Special Forces with the Green Beret? All question that will be answered shortly...

 

Leigh

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I hadn't given much attention to this topic as I thought it was an unlikely thing to happen, but here is the latest update from the Army Times:

 

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/03/29/pinks-and-greens-uniform-gets-nod-from-the-chief-of-staff-armys-top-enlisted-soldier-looking-at-costs/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

 

It seems really odd to see modern badges on what are essentially WWII uniforms.

 

I wonder if this means a new generation of unit patches will be restored?

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I'm not sure why I'm just noticing this, but note how the overseas bars are on the right sleeve and reenlistment bars are on the left sleeve, whereas on the WWII-era uniforms both would've been on the left sleeve. This is the same setup as on the old dress greens. I assume they're they doing this because the average number of overseas and reenlistment bars earned by a soldier has increased and all the bars on one sleeve wouldn't look good (especially for senior NCOs)? It must be the same reason why they did it when the greens first came out.

 

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Another "brilliant" epiphany: These are the WWII officer pattern uniforms being proposed, not the WWII enlisted uniforms to which I referred to above which had reenlistment bars originally. So really its a grey area of sorts.

Interested in items related to:

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-Military instillations located in the Texas Panhandle, South Plains, and West Texas.

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-413th Civil Affairs Battalion (USAR)

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RM1c William C. Denney - U.S.S. McDermut (DD-677) Korea

 

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I really never understood why they moved away from the Dress Greens.

 

One of the rationales for moving to "simpler" uniforms was to reduce costs for the enlisted troops.

 

Having a Khaki Class B uniform with sewn stripes is a step backwards. Whether or not you liked the lime green shirts, the slip on shoulder boards for both long and short sleeve just made a lot of sense.

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Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

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"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

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I assume they're they doing this because the average number of overseas and reenlistment bars earned by a soldier has increased and all the bars on one sleeve wouldn't look good (especially for senior NCOs)? It must be the same reason why they did it when the greens first came out.

 

In the WW2 period, the lower right sleeve was still "taken" for WW1 wound chevrons. By the '50s I guess they figured it was safe to shift the overseas bars to the right and alleviate crowding on the other side.

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One of the rationales for moving to "simpler" uniforms was to reduce costs for the enlisted troops.

 

Having a Khaki Class B uniform with sewn stripes is a step backwards. Whether or not you liked the lime green shirts, the slip on shoulder boards for both long and short sleeve just made a lot of sense.

Good point.

I never got the idea any of this was a cost-saving measure, though I must admit once they went to Velcro field uniform patches, that must have save a bundle. Anyone with BDUs coming from a unit with a large unit patch (such as 2ID or 1st CAV) would often have to get new BDUs as the residue from the previous patch usually couldn't be covered by the new unit one...

Some units, I've heard, would ask PCS'ing soldiers to turn in their Velcro patches so they could be issued again. That's the only cost-saving measure for soldiers I can recall happening as far as uniforms.

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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Good point.

I never got the idea any of this was a cost-saving measure, though I must admit once they went to Velcro field uniform patches, that must have save a bundle. Anyone with BDUs coming from a unit with a large unit patch (such as 2ID or 1st CAV) would often have to get new BDUs as the residue from the previous patch usually couldn't be covered by the new unit one...

Some units, I've heard, would ask PCS'ing soldiers to turn in their Velcro patches so they could be issued again. That's the only cost-saving measure for soldiers I can recall happening as far as uniforms.

 

Unfortunately any "cost savings" are offset by the fact that the newer uniforms are almost double the cost of the BDU.

 

Also, I believe soldiers are now authorized to sew name and US Army tapes onto the OCP and ACU uniforms, as well as combat and special skill badges, and now that it has become authorized it will quickly become the "de facto standard" meaning that soldiers who don't sew their name and US Army tapes on will look like rag bags in comparison to those who do.

 

So really, the only 'cost' saved is the sewing of Shoulder Sleeve Insignias/Patches (SSIs). Soldiers are still going to have to go to the tailor shop to have their name and US Army tapes sewn on.

 

Having said that - in the 20+ years I spent in the "BDU" Army, I never felt that having to have patches sewn on was a huge burden.

 

And yes, I did serve in the 2ID so I had one of those big patches. ;) It left a bit of a "shadow" on my BDUs but seeing as how the next unit I went to was a Special Forces battalion (3.3 SFG), nobody cared about my 2ID "shadows" anyway.

 

I also served in 1AD, another big patch that left a big dark green triangle on my BDUs. No biggie, next unit was 201st MI Bde with a smaller, shield shaped patch but I don't recall anybody ever caring about the shadows on my left shoulder, or even noticing them.

 

Realistically, a set of hot weather BDUs (HWBDUs) would only last about a year, maybe 18 months max (and I worked in an office job!) so the "problem" of the old patch on the uniform worked itself out quickly anyway. Temperate BDUs were good for maybe 2 years or even 3.

 

Sorry, I know this is a diversion from the topic at hand which is the "Pinks and Greens." As I've said, I like them, certainly I like them much better than the awful ASU, which IMO is a hideous, ugly uniform that looks ridiculous. I also hate that the ASU did away with the tradition of the SSI worn on the uniform.

 

So even though I know this may end up being a burden on soldiers, I am fully in support of ditching the ASU and going to the P&G. I can only hope that while they are at it they ditch the black beret for non-elite soldiers and I really wish they'd go back to a WWII style "soft" overseas cap instead of the stiff "conehead" garrison cap of the old Dress Greens.

 

I'd also love to see khakis reintroduced as class B uniforms. Certainly khakis would be a huge improvement over the "Mall Security Guard" look of the current ASU Class B uniform.

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

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As I've said, I like them, certainly I like them much better than the awful ASU, which IMO is a hideous, ugly uniform that looks ridiculous. I also hate that the ASU did away with the tradition of the SSI worn on the uniform.

 

So even though I know this may end up being a burden on soldiers, I am fully in support of ditching the ASU and going to the P&G. I can only hope that while they are at it they ditch the black beret for non-elite soldiers and I really wish they'd go back to a WWII style "soft" overseas cap instead of the stiff "conehead" garrison cap of the old Dress Greens.

I agree fully with all this, but I can't imagine they'd go to a soft version of the overseas cap.

I was lucky enough to get out right before the Green class As were gone for good (and avoided the berets in the reserves). Heck, I hardly ever wore my greens anyway, as anytime we needed to dress up for something, it was usually the blues anyway. I guessed wrong when I got my 2LT bars, I bought a second-hand set of blues and bought my greens new and tailored. I only ever wore my greens when I pinned on the gold bar of obedience, a reception in OBC, graduation from the same, a few "you're a widow now" notifications and my DA board for Captain. Other than this and a couple of portraits I wore it for, that was it. If I wasn't in BDUs, I was in blues. I was surprised how often I was expected to wear blues (and only once ever with the straight tie and hat, the rest were considered 'formal' events).

The blues look silly with the beret, I always thought, unless you're in a SOCOM or AB role.

These new WW2-style uniforms simply look 'right' to me. Even the earth tones of them speak to the role of being in the mud, I feel, regardless how I feel about bringing back one of the best uniforms the Army ever had for historical reasons.

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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As a paratrooper and jumpmaster, I'd even be OK with ditching the maroon beret in favor of an overseas cap with the famous "glider patch." I always liked that look and in addition to being a sharp look, I liked the fact that it was really a uniquely "American" look.

 

I mean, 'cmon, tell me this isn't a great looking combination (except for the 1LT bar in the middle of the patch. Was it ever worn this way?)

 

 

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Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

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I’ll second Martin's sentiment as a Jumpmaster as well. I like the beret so I’d want to continue its use in some respect but I love the

P&G look and sentiment

Frankly the current ASU et al is IMO just silly, dumb, unpolished in appearance and poorly thought out (if at all).

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As a paratrooper and jumpmaster, I'd even be OK with ditching the maroon beret in favor of an overseas cap with the famous "glider patch." I always liked that look and in addition to being a sharp look, I liked the fact that it was really a uniquely "American" look.

 

I mean, 'cmon, tell me this isn't a great looking combination (except for the 1LT bar in the middle of the patch. Was it ever worn this way?)

 

 

 

Typically officers wore the patch on the right side of the cap and rank on the left.Same when the para/glider patch came into existence.

 

You will see some enlisted who may have put the cap patch on the right at times but they were to be worn on the left.

 

There were colored wool roubels worn on the left side of the cap early with rank pin.I have one in in infantry blue

 

Also looks like an enlisted piped cap in the movie still.

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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