Drone pilots to get medals

[MMA10mm]

Check out the comments after the article on-line at Marine Corps Times...

 

There's about one defender of the new medal for every 500 vehemently, angrily against it... Seems a lot of the backlash has to do with the placing of the medal just below the DFC, well ahead of the Bronze Star w/ V and purple heart.

 

The one unemotional, cogent comment I saw was: "At this level of precedence, I should think this should be a rare award." I suppose we'll have to wait and see...

[skautdog]

Amazing, but not surprising!

First, the proposed precedence level is far too elevated. Next, to award a "combat" associated medal to someone thousands of miles away from any combat or danger degrads the performance and courage of those who are there, doing that. Possibly a qualification badge (probably already have that) would be reasonable. Tell a FAC or grunt on the ground that a guy pushing a joy stick in an airconditioned building and going home each night is facing the same hardships/danger as are they and stand back for their response.

I was not in the Air Force. I experienced my combat as a grunt platoon leader in Vietnam. I have noting but the highest respect and admiration for Air Force fighter pilots who come in low and drop hot stuff on the enemy and for Army (and other services) helicopter pilots who look the enemy in the face as they throw stuff at the bad guys, H/E, someone "facing" danger thousands of miles away, in my opinion, does not deserve a medal for combat.

[Bluehawk]

I just have a serious dispute with the precedence... for a AF guy, if it has to exist, then maybe somewhere to the right of the Combat ribbon, or something.

 

NOT there above a purple heart, just for heaven sake not there!

[firefighter]

I just have a serious dispute with the precedence... for a AF guy, if it has to exist, then maybe somewhere to the right of the Combat ribbon, or something.

 

NOT there above a purple heart, just for heaven sake not there!

 

 

Totally Agree 100% !!!

[12A54]

To put this in more visual perspective, the new decoration sits just above the Soldiers Medal (the standard for which is "risk of life") in the Army order of precedence:

[firefighter]

It should be either between the Commendation Medal and Achievement Medal or below the Achievement Medal.If they even need it, which they don't.

My two cent's.

[firefighter]

Actually.I was thinking they should make the award like the Combat Readiness Medal.

 

The current Combat Readiness Medal is awarded to any member of U.S. Air Force, Air National Guard, or Air Force Reserve, who have accomplished sustained individual combat mission readiness or who have undertaken the preparedness for direct weapon-system employment. A service member must have completed 24 cumulative months of sustained duty performance for the medal to be received.^[1]

The Combat Readiness Medal is given as a service award by an Air Force Major Headquarters. In many cases, those receiving the award have also qualified for the Air Medal or the Aerial Achievement Medal

[Brig]

I think it should fall after the combat action ribbon/medal depending on branch. They're not involved in actual combat.

 

The Marines I know with Bronze Stars and Silver Stars for combat...worked much harder and sacrificed much more than a drone pilot. Isn't there an order somewhere permitting an individual to opt to wear only unit awards?

 

I wonder if precedence has something to do with the fact that drones are somebody's baby

[Brig]

Amazing, but not surprising!

First, the proposed precedence level is far too elevated. Next, to award a "combat" associated medal to someone thousands of miles away from any combat or danger degrads the performance and courage of those who are there, doing that. Possibly a qualification badge (probably already have that) would be reasonable. Tell a FAC or grunt on the ground that a guy pushing a joy stick in an airconditioned building and going home each night is facing the same hardships/danger as are they and stand back for their response.

 

Way, way back...

 

I think achievement medals would more than cover their contributions

[firefighter]

Amazing, but not surprising!

First, the proposed precedence level is far too elevated. Next, to award a "combat" associated medal to someone thousands of miles away from any combat or danger degrads the performance and courage of those who are there, doing that. Possibly a qualification badge (probably already have that) would be reasonable. Tell a FAC or grunt on the ground that a guy pushing a joy stick in an airconditioned building and going home each night is facing the same hardships/danger as are they and stand back for their response.

I was not in the Air Force. I experienced my combat as a grunt platoon leader in Vietnam. I have noting but the highest respect and admiration for Air Force fighter pilots who come in low and drop hot stuff on the enemy and for Army (and other services) helicopter pilots who look the enemy in the face as they throw stuff at the bad guys, H/E, someone "facing" danger thousands of miles away, in my opinion, does not deserve a medal for combat.

 

 

The actually do have a badge.

US Air Force Remotely Piloted Aircraft Sensor Operators Badge

[rr01]

Being the possessor of many of the awards shown in post #205 I remain satisfied that the award and it's ranking satisfactorily represent the importance of their mission. The UAV has proven itself time & again which is a testament to the men & women who operate them. It is more versatile than manned fighters or recon aircraft and is becoming much more plentiful. It will soon be a rarity when Silver Stars and DFCs are awarded and this new decoration ensures the distinction of accomplishments remain separate.

I have watched with a bit of dismay the expansion to almost over the shoulder of the badges and awards created over the last decades. It used to be that the USAF SSgt with numerous Air Medals and no combat service award flew either RC~135s or WC~130s, No big deal but someone got their nose out of joint and along came the Aerial Achievement Medal.

It used to be that a Marine or Navy troop with a Combat Action Medal and no other valor awards had still seen combat but the Marine Corps was sparing in those awards while an Army counterpart left Vietnam with the "end of tour" package {Army Commendation Medal & both Vietnam Service Medals}. I read a book not long ago about the Marines in WWI and the officer writing that book made reference to the older NCOs with two rows of ribbons as being the guys to heed. Times have sure changed.

Sitting in air conditioned comfort does not alter the stress of the mission and failure still effects them just as if they were actually overhead. No, the danger to them is non~existent but that should actually be counted as a benefit since ability derives from experience.

Since this award supplants the others you will never see any of them on the chest of a UAV driver. I'm still aghast that the Air Force awards such things as Basic training graduation ribbons, NCO academy graduation ribbons and the Combat Action Medal among the many others that make it difficult to determine what, if anything has actually been accomplished. The retirement shadow boxes are now becoming very expensive wall panels.

[Bluehawk]

Well stated, rr01 - yet here is the question lingering:

 

Have we redefined "Valor"?

[BigMoose]

If they are going to do this, and I am not saying it's a good idea, the guy on the battleship flying the drone that all the iraqis surrendered too needs to get the first one.

 

At least he was in the combat theater of operation and in some danger of being shot at.

[rr01]

Well stated, rr01 - yet here is the question lingering:

 

Have we redefined "Valor"?

I hesitate to say we have because I cannot equate the valor of today to my/our time. Conflict has evolved as have the risks. It might be easy to dismiss valorous acts today based upon previous experiences when the current method of killing & maiming seems to be by remote detonation. When I'm over at the VA I have to remind myself that the young troops walking those halls have had different experiences than myself and while my enemy was usually lurking under a jungle canopy todays enemy can be and often is just about anywhere.

In the context of this award valor may be attributed to the action leading to the award but I hope such wording is in the text of the award without a "V" device on the medal. In this day I also feel it is a matter of time before these crewmembers become targets of that unseen enemy who uses the button of a cell phone to target not only the combatant but their families.

[firefighter]

Well put rr01.I just don't understand why everybody has to point to the AF for unnecessary awards.The Army also has a basic training, NCO ribbon, Sea duty & overseas ribbon.The Navy, CG & MC all have os ribbons too.The Navy, MC,CG & AF have a recruiting ribbon.The CG also has an Honor Grad ribbon.The CG use to share the Navy PUC now they have their own.Between the navy & CG there are almost 20 different rifle & pistol ribbons, the AF has 1.And my favorite.Sea Deployment ribbon for the Navy, really.So I agree there are MANY unnecessary awards out there ALL the services need to share in the blame.

[Bluehawk]

... In this day I also feel it is a matter of time before these crewmembers become targets of that unseen enemy who uses the button of a cell phone to target not only the combatant but their families.

Indeed so...

[seanmc1114]

Since this award supplants the others you will never see any of them on the chest of a UAV driver.

I doubt this award will supplant anything. What it really does is create an exclusive little club and only the members of that club will ever receive one. I'm sure the UAV drivers will still earn Achievement and Commendation Medals for their tours.

 

With it's higher precedence, hopefully the new medal will not be given out left and right like the Air Medal has been. (No offense, but when a medal is automatically awarded for doing anything a certain number of times, I consider it a service award and not a decoration.) We all know the reality is that this will just be an extra award on top of, and not replacing, all of the others already being awarded. In the end, who doesn't believe this will wind up being an automatic award to UAV drivers for completing a certain number of missions or serving in that capacity for a certain number of months? That would be fine except for the fact they already have a badge for that.

 

But to me the worst part of the whole situation is how high it is ranked in the order of precedence. That is simply ridiculous and, in my mind, there is no way to justify that. To have it outrank awards for valor in actual ground combat as well as the medal earned for wounds received in action is simply an insult.

[zsmith]

Sea Deployment ribbon for the Navy, really.

 

 

You do know that the Army has a sea duty ribbon?

[Brig]

Being the possessor of many of the awards shown in post #205 I remain satisfied that the award and it's ranking satisfactorily represent the importance of their mission. The UAV has proven itself time & again which is a testament to the men & women who operate them.

 

I don't disagree with this. They are important and useful. However, the awards system seems to award higher awards to either higher ranks, or much more dangerous/stressful achievements. While the mission may be stressful, it's easy for the operator to distance themselves psychologically because of the distance between them and the chaos. Psychologically, pilots tend to cope better with combat stress than say Grunts or arty. Not saying this because I'm a Grunt, but pilots have to see, hear, and smell much less of the carnage than the guy on the ground. Honestly, I'd say that Helo pilots have it the toughest in that regards because they often get right into the thick of things and even touch down in the middle of the battlefield. Psychologically, I'd imagine that a drone pilot's perception is rather close to that of a video gamer, except there's the fact in the back of their heads that it's real. Because of this I also imagine that the younger airmen are the better drone operators....

 

I don't necessarily agree with the medal for it, but I disagree with it being above any valor award for ground combat. I think it should fall after the Purple Heart with the achievement medals.

 

Do drone pilots rate campaign medals?

[firefighter]

 

 

You do know that the Army has a sea duty ribbon?

 

I do.I had that on my list. Did you know drone pilots are eligible for the Air Force Expeditionary Service Ribbon? Weird stuff man.

 

Just looked at the new medal chart.It is listed below the DFC and above the Soldiers/Airmans Medal.

 

This is on WIKIPEDIA,

 

Controversy

 

The announcement of the Distinguished Warfare Medal was met with immediate derision, with some dubbing it the "Geek Cross" and suggesting that drone pilots may next receivePurple Heart awards for virtual wounds sustained.^[9] Its order of precedence, specifically in outranking the Bronze Star with Valor, an award for bravery in combat, drew wide complaints from military members as well as confusion from military medals experts. Outgoing Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta defended the award's precedence, saying "Our military reserves its highest decorations obviously for those who display gallantry and valor in actions when their lives are on the line and we will continue to do so. But we should also have the ability to honor the extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations. The contribution they make does contribute to the success of combat operations, particularly when they remove the enemy from the field of battle, even if those actions are physically removed from the fight."^[10]

 

[edit]

[Brig]

Because Panetta has been just full of good ideas lately

[firefighter]

Bet you didn't know this, The Distinguished Warfare Medal may be awarded posthumously.

 

So I know we keep saying drone pilots will be getting this award, but lets say an EWO on an AC-130 did something would he be eligible for the medal?

[Bluehawk]

... lets say an EWO on an AC-130 did something would he be eligible for the medal?

The criteria (kinda wobbly on that ^ question, seems like?):

 

Link see:

http://www.defense.g...reMedalMemo.pdf

[seanmc1114]

So I know we keep saying drone pilots will be getting this award, but lets say an EWO on an AC-130 did something would he be eligible for the medal?

Link see:

http://www.defense.g...reMedalMemo.pdf

According to the criteria spelled out in this link, the medal will only be awarded to recognize single acts of extraordinary achievement and will not be made in recognition of sustained operational activities or service. The criteria do seem to open the door for acts other than "kills" by drone pilots although I'm drawing a blank on what those single acts of achievement not involving valor might be.

 

What that means to me is that recipients will still be eligible for, and likely to receive, other awards such as the Legion of Merit, Meritorious Service Medal, Commendation Medal or Achievement Medal for sustained periods of achievement that overlap the single acts of achievement rating the award of the Distinguished Warfare Medal. So I doubt seriously this medal is going to replace anything else.

[12A54]