Drone pilots to get medals

[rr01]

I do not believe the MSM can be awarded for valor. In that case, at that level of award, the BSM with "V" device is the proper one. It is only recently that the MSM was authorized for award in a "combat zone." It was done to reduce the number of meritorious achievement BSM awards being made and enhance the prestige of the BSM a bit.

I apologize for not clarifying my comment since I was referring to the MSM as a non~combat award in a discussion that is focused primarily on the combat arena. In this context it is about heroism {or valor} in a non~combat environment. At the time this occurred, mid '70s the MSM was fairly new and was more broadly awarded than it is now.

The two instances I witnessed this award to another individual {yep, same guy twice} it was awarded instead of the Airman's Medal. Don't ask me why because I wasn't part of that decision process. It did not entitle the individual to wear the "V" device but it was noted in the citation that the individual had been heroic. I don't know what was on the orders, whether for heroism or meritorious service only what was on the citations for those awards.

Each service sets their own standard for the award and wear of the "V" device as well as how an award can be determined. While numerals on Air Medals and such might indicate one thing to a Marine they are not even addressed by the Air Force.

[rr01]

The thing I'm still confused about is whether the Distinguished Warfare Medal being proposed, and which is the basis for this forum, is intended to have broad criteria and be awarded across a whole range of military occupations or is intended solely to recognize the actions of UAV operators as the original article suggests. Does anyone know?

Strictly for the UAV folks, at least from reading the threads posted here earlier.

[rr01]

No one in todays's AF gives the commendation medal a second (or even first) thought, since just about everyone gets one around every three years. So in practice, it draws no special attention.

Maybe I've been retired too long and therefore continue to maintain my appreciation for the accomplishments or service ANY award is supposed to represent. Sure, I might look at the Air Force Achievement medal {AFAM} with a little less consideration than something not so easily attained such as the Silver Star but not every troop faces the same hazards. The guy who fuels aircraft may receive an AFAM for putting out a fire in the engine bay before it makes the 5 o'clock news but it is still a testament to what was done.

I remember an old WWII vet in my unit who always wore all his ribbons, topped by an Air Force Commendation medal. At the time I sort of pooh~poohed anyone having so many rows of "glad you came" ribbons until I personally matured and began to appreciate that all those other ribbons represented service and sacrifice without anymore recogniton. He might have spent thrity years as a supply troop and only risen to E~5 {active & Reserve time} but what he lacked in "salad dressing" he more than made up for in ability.

I also remember the guys returning from Vietnam with their standard "end of tour" ribbon package; the Vietnam Service Medal and Vietnam Campaign Medal as well as as Bronze Star for grunts or an Army Commendation medal for support troops.

[Kadet]

I apologize for not clarifying my comment since I was referring to the MSM as a non~combat award in a discussion that is focused primarily on the combat arena. In this context it is about heroism {or valor} in a non~combat environment. At the time this occurred, mid '70s the MSM was fairly new and was more broadly awarded than it is now.

The two instances I witnessed this award to another individual {yep, same guy twice} it was awarded instead of the Airman's Medal. Don't ask me why because I wasn't part of that decision process. It did not entitle the individual to wear the "V" device but it was noted in the citation that the individual had been heroic. I don't know what was on the orders, whether for heroism or meritorious service only what was on the citations for those awards.

Each service sets their own standard for the award and wear of the "V" device as well as how an award can be determined. While numerals on Air Medals and such might indicate one thing to a Marine they are not even addressed by the Air Force.

 

 

I believe the current MSM is specifically forbidden as a combat-related award, although the Army and perhaps AF have made an exception to policy for OIF/OND and OEF as noted above. Still specifically forbidden by the USN/USMC though. Also, IMO, precedence means very little when it comes to the difference between combat/valor awards and peacetime awards for service. For example, the LOM has precedence above the Bronze Star...but to most people the Bronze Star has more meaning because it represents service in combat or valor (although I know the LOM can be awarded for this as well). Likewise, a Silver Star has far more meaning than the service awards that "outrank" it. Perhaps it would make sense to rearrange the precedence to put all combat/valorous awards at the top of the pile...but that just isn't the way the system works right now. A new award for UAV crews will be recognized for what it represents, regardless of where it falls in the pecking order.

[patches]

Posted at 02:40 PM ET, 07/09/2012

 

By Al Kamen

 

The Pentagon is considering awarding a Distinguished Warfare Medal to drone pilots who work on military bases often far removed from the battlefield.

 

Pentagon officials have been briefed on the medal’s “unique concept,” Charles V. Mugno, head of the Army Institute of Heraldry, told a recent meeting of the Commission of Fine Arts, according to a report in Coin World by our former colleague Bill McAllister.

 

Mugno said most combat decorations require “boots on the ground” in a combat zone, but he noted that “emerging technologies” such as drones and cyber combat missions are now handled by troops far removed from combat.

 

The Pentagon has not formally endorsed the medal, but Mugno’s institute has completed six alternate designs for commission approval.

 

The notion of greater recognition for drone pilots has been percolating for some time. Air Force Maj. Dave Blair, writing in the May-June issue of the Air & Space Power Journal, asked how much difference there is in terms of risk “between 10,000 feet and 10,000 miles.”

 

A “manned aircraft . . . that scrapes the top of a combat zone, well outside the range of any realistic threat” is deemed in “combat,” Blair writes, but a Predator firing a missile is considered “combat support.”

 

The proposed medal would rank between the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Soldier’s Medal for exceptional conduct outside a combat zone.

 

 

Why don't they just call the Electronic Warfare medal or something along those lines, or if they really want to be MODERN call it the Cyber Warfare Medal, Distinguished Warfare Medal ? what would that sound like ? it sounds like a award given for actual combat.

[Kadet]

Why don't they just call the Electronic Warfare medal or something along those lines, or if they really want to be MODERN call it the Cyber Warfare Medal, Distinguished Warfare Medal ? what would that sound like ? it sounds like a award given for actual combat.

 

 

that is the strange issue though....they ARE engaged in actual combat, but from a remote location. I would venture to say that this one has a long way to go before it appears on anyone's uniform, and the name could use some work for sure.

[rr01]

Just when you thought this topic was dead......

[hink441]

they ARE engaged in actual combat, but from a remote location.

 

This statement makes no sense. How can you be engaged in "actual combat" if you are not facing death??

[patches]

Or Distiguished Cyber Warfare Medal, but don't rank it up there with the traditional high valor decorations.

 

On a light note, perhaps they can put this engraved on the front. :w00t:

[Jack's Son]

......... :laughing1: :laughing1:

[Jeffro]

This thread is interesting to read. What I get out of the initial post is that the Pentagon has not even endorsed the idea yet, but that the office of Heraldry has created 4 potential designs. There are a lot of very good points being made by many of the posters. I'm sure there will be plenty of careful thought put in to this before anything is ever approved if it's ever even officially proposed. However I do find it offensive that some of you have resorted to mocking the significance of certain members of our military on a forum that is supposed to honor their service and sacrifice through the items we collect. I for one, feel that anyone that honorably serves in our military deserves the utmost respect of any citizen of this country or alien residing here regardless of the job assigned to that military personnel. I'm just as proud and appreciative of the fresh recruit as I am the top decorated soldier in our nation's military. I would argue that drones have done more to take out top Ts than any other fixed wing unit has during the duration of the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. It's the one thing the Commander in Chief has done right over the last three and a half years. Does that elevate their role over any other? No; nor does it lower it. However, it does punctuate their personal contribution to the war(s) efforts. There will always be rivalry between the different branches of service, individual units and the personnel ranks and roles within them. Frankly, I wouldn't have it any other way. I want every single one of them to strive to be the best at whatever their job is. We all benefit from this. Would the posters on this thread be as critical of these drone pilots "in lazy boys spilling their root beer out in Vegas 10,000 miles away from the field of battle" if some newly converted whack-job jihadist blew up a trailer full of drone pilots? Would they drool over the table of PH groupings belonging to drone pilots at a SOS show 10 years from now? I think some of you need to check your sarcasm and remember the role of this forum. Let's continue to show every soldier, sailor or airman the respect they deserve without using the condescending statements and LOL emoticons to highlight your disrespect. Jeffro

[Kadet]

This thread is interesting to read. What I get out of the initial post is that the Pentagon has not even endorsed the idea yet, but that the office of Heraldry has created 4 potential designs. There are a lot of very good points being made by many of the posters. I'm sure there will be plenty of careful thought put in to this before anything is ever approved if it's ever even officially proposed. However I do find it offensive that some of you have resorted to mocking the significance of certain members of our military on a forum that is supposed to honor their service and sacrifice through the items we collect. I for one, feel that anyone that honorably serves in our military deserves the utmost respect of any citizen of this country or alien residing here regardless of the job assigned to that military personnel. I'm just as proud and appreciative of the fresh recruit as I am the top decorated soldier in our nation's military. I would argue that drones have done more to take out top Ts than any other fixed wing unit has during the duration of the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. It's the one thing the Commander in Chief has done right over the last three and a half years. Does that elevate their role over any other? No; nor does it lower it. However, it does punctuate their personal contribution to the war(s) efforts. There will always be rivalry between the different branches of service, individual units and the personnel ranks and roles within them. Frankly, I wouldn't have it any other way. I want every single one of them to strive to be the best at whatever their job is. We all benefit from this. Would the posters on this thread be as critical of these drone pilots "in lazy boys spilling their root beer out in Vegas 10,000 miles away from the field of battle" if some newly converted whack-job jihadist blew up a trailer full of drone pilots? Would they drool over the table of PH groupings belonging to drone pilots at a SOS show 10 years from now? I think some of you need to check your sarcasm and remember the role of this forum. Let's continue to show every soldier, sailor or airman the respect they deserve without using the condescending statements and LOL emoticons to highlight your disrespect. Jeffro

 

 

well stated.

[hawkdriver]

This thread is interesting to read. What I get out of the initial post is that the Pentagon has not even endorsed the idea yet, but that the office of Heraldry has created 4 potential designs. There are a lot of very good points being made by many of the posters. I'm sure there will be plenty of careful thought put in to this before anything is ever approved if it's ever even officially proposed. However I do find it offensive that some of you have resorted to mocking the significance of certain members of our military on a forum that is supposed to honor their service and sacrifice through the items we collect. I for one, feel that anyone that honorably serves in our military deserves the utmost respect of any citizen of this country or alien residing here regardless of the job assigned to that military personnel. I'm just as proud and appreciative of the fresh recruit as I am the top decorated soldier in our nation's military. I would argue that drones have done more to take out top Ts than any other fixed wing unit has during the duration of the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. It's the one thing the Commander in Chief has done right over the last three and a half years. Does that elevate their role over any other? No; nor does it lower it. However, it does punctuate their personal contribution to the war(s) efforts. There will always be rivalry between the different branches of service, individual units and the personnel ranks and roles within them. Frankly, I wouldn't have it any other way. I want every single one of them to strive to be the best at whatever their job is. We all benefit from this. Would the posters on this thread be as critical of these drone pilots "in lazy boys spilling their root beer out in Vegas 10,000 miles away from the field of battle" if some newly converted whack-job jihadist blew up a trailer full of drone pilots? Would they drool over the table of PH groupings belonging to drone pilots at a SOS show 10 years from now? I think some of you need to check your sarcasm and remember the role of this forum. Let's continue to show every soldier, sailor or airman the respect they deserve without using the condescending statements and LOL emoticons to highlight your disrespect. Jeffro

 

And that is your opinion. Some of us that have been out in the trenches slugging it out with the enemy face to face find it extremely distasteful that "root beer" drinkers in Vegas as you call them are being put up for awards that exceed what %99 of combat troops will ever get awarded. I will say it again, when an Infantry grunt is burnt and chunks of himself are blown away in a attack where he

"HEROICALLY" saves everyone in his vehicle while still engaging the enemy with his weapon and gets a ARCOM with "V" device, that is where this whole argument about drone pilots takes a left turn.

Let me get something straight before my following diatribe. I have the utmost regard for anyone that has or is serving over those that have never spent a day in a issued uniform and will do anything to help and support them as a brother in arms. But, with that said, there are pedestals in the military, Combat Arms is at the top, Combat Support, then Service Support and simply enough, drone pilots are in the service support arena, no matter how much they want to climb up on top the Combat Arms pedestal. I know that being a helicopter pilot that I fall onto that Combat Support pedestal, the lot that I cast. If I want to be on that Combat Arms pedestal, I know that I need to pick up a rifle and go stand a post. I respect those guys from my lower pedestal and don't try to equal myself by getting a higher award to "level the playing field" (like what they are doing in the drone field)

The military has always mocked each other and it will continue as long as it exists. The day that political correctness wipes that out is the day that it is no longer a military. As for this forum, in my opinion, the day we thought it was cool to sell anti-war literature is the day we gave up the moniker of "honoring" the military.

As far as my sarcasm and "disrespect" as you call it, I think that three and a half years in the combat trench with the fourth tour impending, personally dealing with these individuals and their work earns me the right to my opinion and sarcasm and I don't need your approval. Respect isn't given, it's earned and your pious chastising opinion is just that an opinion.

 

Oh, I almost forgot the emoticon for you :thumbsup: Now, I have to put my uniform on and go to work.

[Kadet]

And that is your opinion. Some of us that have been out in the trenches slugging it out with the enemy face to face find it extremely distasteful that "root beer" drinkers in Vegas as you call them are being put up for awards that exceed what %99 of combat troops will ever get awarded. I will say it again, when an Infantry grunt is burnt and chunks of himself are blown away in a attack where he

"HEROICALLY" saves everyone in his vehicle while still engaging the enemy with his weapon and gets a ARCOM with "V" device, that is where this whole argument about drone pilots takes a left turn.

Let me get something straight before my following diatribe. I have the utmost regard for anyone that has or is serving over those that have never spent a day in a issued uniform and will do anything to help and support them as a brother in arms. But, with that said, there are pedestals in the military, Combat Arms is at the top, Combat Support, then Service Support and simply enough, drone pilots are in the service support arena, no matter how much they want to climb up on top the Combat Arms pedestal. I know that being a helicopter pilot that I fall onto that Combat Support pedestal, the lot that I cast. If I want to be on that Combat Arms pedestal, I know that I need to pick up a rifle and go stand a post. I respect those guys from my lower pedestal and don't try to equal myself by getting a higher award to "level the playing field" (like what they are doing in the drone field)

The military has always mocked each other and it will continue as long as it exists. The day that political correctness wipes that out is the day that it is no longer a military. As for this forum, in my opinion, the day we thought it was cool to sell anti-war literature is the day we gave up the moniker of "honoring" the military.

As far as my sarcasm and "disrespect" as you call it, I think that three and a half years in the combat trench with the fourth tour impending, personally dealing with these individuals and their work earns me the right to my opinion and sarcasm and I don't need your approval. Respect isn't given, it's earned and your pious chastising opinion is just that an opinion.

 

Oh, I almost forgot the emoticon for you :thumbsup: Now, I have to put my uniform on and go to work.

 

 

I don't buy the "pedestal" argument. I'm a member of what you would define as the top pedestal, and have been for almost 30 years. However, I feel that we all contribute in our own way, and at many different levels. It is arrogant and overly simplistic to think of the military in terms of a caste system, especially when it comes to contribution in the war effort. I served extensively in Iraq, and was awarded a Bronze Star there...but I also intimately understand what UAV crews do, and also feel that a commendation medal isn't adequate to recognize some of their more exceptional achievements. Nor do I think they should receive DFCs and Air Medals. Hence the dilemma IMO. Regardless of the actual precedence, a COM w/ a V device carries far more weight than one of the service awards that happens to sit above it on a ribbon rack. Your argument seems to hinge on defending those of us on your "top pedestal"...but we don't need defending IMO. My two cents.

[hawkdriver]

I don't buy the "pedestal" argument. I'm a member of what you would define as the top pedestal, and have been for almost 30 years. However, I feel that we all contribute in our own way, and at many different levels. It is arrogant and overly simplistic to think of the military in terms of a caste system, especially when it comes to contribution in the war effort. I served extensively in Iraq, and was awarded a Bronze Star there...but I also intimately understand what UAV crews do, and also feel that a commendation medal isn't adequate to recognize some of their more exceptional achievements. Nor do I think they should receive DFCs and Air Medals. Hence the dilemma IMO. Regardless of the actual precedence, a COM w/ a V device carries far more weight than one of the service awards that happens to sit above it on a ribbon rack. Your argument seems to hinge on defending those of us on your "top pedestal"...but we don't need defending IMO. My two cents.

 

Arrogance?? thinking there is no caste system in the military? There always has been and always will be, that is why we have Officers, Warrants, and Enlisted, the military is not meant to be a simplistic, everyone equal organization. You can label it however you want, pedestals, ladders, whatever, but if you have been there for almost 30 years like I have as well, then you know there is a pecking order, have and have nots, and whether you think it's arrogant or whatever, you know the truth. It has always been that those that pay the biggest price get the biggest recognition. Why is it that the Infantry has a blue disk behind their collar brass? Why do they wear cords? Why do paratroopers blouse their dress pants in paratrooper boots? It's because of that recognition system that we do have. This caste system is well entrenched and as an example, explain why they are now talking about letting women into the SF? Is it because of racial equality? No, it's because women's upward mobility and promotion perceived as stunted because they can't get the same recognition and promotion that men get. As far as defending you, I'm not defending you, but I will defend those that pay the price for what they do against those that wish to gain more than their position allows. Drone guys are operators, they are not pilots nor aviators, simply operators in a system they chose to join, no more, no less, they chose their profession.

This socialistic move to make everyone equal so no one has less than anyone else is reviling and is what is going to eventually tear this military and country apart. Drone operators are what they are and no more and to take away from those that make real sacrifices is wrong.

I'm not going to input on this thread anymore, I think my stance is clear. You either think this whole issue is H.S., or you think drone operators deserve higher recognition for sitting in an air condition building than those who strap the aircraft to themselves and die doing so. I think the fence sitters are drug off and there are two camps that will never see this eye to eye. Out.

[Kadet]

Arrogance?? thinking there is no caste system in the military? There always has been and always will be, that is why we have Officers, Warrants, and Enlisted, the military is not meant to be a simplistic, everyone equal organization. You can label it however you want, pedestals, ladders, whatever, but if you have been there for almost 30 years like I have as well, then you know there is a pecking order, have and have nots, and whether you think it's arrogant or whatever, you know the truth. It has always been that those that pay the biggest price get the biggest recognition. Why is it that the Infantry has a blue disk behind their collar brass? Why do they wear cords? Why do paratroopers blouse their dress pants in paratrooper boots? It's because of that recognition system that we do have. This caste system is well entrenched and as an example, explain why they are now talking about letting women into the SF? Is it because of racial equality? No, it's because women's upward mobility and promotion perceived as stunted because they can't get the same recognition and promotion that men get. As far as defending you, I'm not defending you, but I will defend those that pay the price for what they do against those that wish to gain more than their position allows. Drone guys are operators, they are not pilots nor aviators, simply operators in a system they chose to join, no more, no less, they chose their profession.

This socialistic move to make everyone equal so no one has less than anyone else is reviling and is what is going to eventually tear this military and country apart. Drone operators are what they are and no more and to take away from those that make real sacrifices is wrong.

I'm not going to input on this thread anymore, I think my stance is clear. You either think this whole issue is H.S., or you think drone operators deserve higher recognition for sitting in an air condition building than those who strap the aircraft to themselves and die doing so. I think the fence sitters are drug off and there are two camps that will never see this eye to eye. Out.

 

 

Count me out of this one as well....you obviously have a chip on your shoulder about this issue for some reason, and frankly come off like an angry, arrogant a#$....that is not my issue though. I stand by my comments.

[hink441]

I'm with Hawkdriver on this one.

[juvatwad]

I think some of you need to check your sarcasm and remember the role of this forum. Let's continue to show every soldier, sailor or airman the respect they deserve without using the condescending statements and LOL emoticons to highlight your disrespect. Jeffro

 

You come of as someone who really doesn't get it. I'll speak for myself with respect to the AF. The AF was created to put bombs on target and kill people. Not everyone in the AF is equal, period. Pushing papers in a personnel office will never equate with going down range.

 

I think you need to relax, mom.

 

Ian

[patches]

Arrogance?? thinking there is no caste system in the military? There always has been and always will be, that is why we have Officers, Warrants, and Enlisted, the military is not meant to be a simplistic, everyone equal organization. You can label it however you want, pedestals, ladders, whatever, but if you have been there for almost 30 years like I have as well, then you know there is a pecking order, have and have nots, and whether you think it's arrogant or whatever, you know the truth. It has always been that those that pay the biggest price get the biggest recognition. Why is it that the Infantry has a blue disk behind their collar brass? Why do they wear cords? Why do paratroopers blouse their dress pants in paratrooper boots? It's because of that recognition system that we do have. This caste system is well entrenched and as an example, explain why they are now talking about letting women into the SF? Is it because of racial equality? No, it's because women's upward mobility and promotion perceived as stunted because they can't get the same recognition and promotion that men get. As far as defending you, I'm not defending you, but I will defend those that pay the price for what they do against those that wish to gain more than their position allows. Drone guys are operators, they are not pilots nor aviators, simply operators in a system they chose to join, no more, no less, they chose their profession.

This socialistic move to make everyone equal so no one has less than anyone else is reviling and is what is going to eventually tear this military and country apart. Drone operators are what they are and no more and to take away from those that make real sacrifices is wrong.

I'm not going to input on this thread anymore, I think my stance is clear. You either think this whole issue is H.S., or you think drone operators deserve higher recognition for sitting in an air condition building than those who strap the aircraft to themselves and die doing so. I think the fence sitters are drug off and there are two camps that will never see this eye to eye. Out.

 

 

HERE HERE!

[rr01]

You come of as someone who really doesn't get it. I'll speak for myself with respect to the AF. The AF was created to put bombs on target and kill people. Not everyone in the AF is equal, period. Pushing papers in a personnel office will never equate with going down range.

 

I think you need to relax, mom.

 

Ian

I suspect this thread will soon run it's course either through disinclination or enforcement but I still have a feeling the topic is not well understood. The proposed PROPOSAL is intended to preserve the uniqueness of the DFC just as the allowance in 2001 of the MSM into the combat theater was intended to supplant the Bronze Star as a combat zone end~of~tour type decoration. As far as where this might go in relation to pedestals this PROPOSED award is only intended for the people who do the job in that environment and not to make them seem better than the guy in the field. None of these people are trying to be anyone else nor are they even making the pitch, that is being done by a bean counter in the area of Ft. Fumble. Meanwhile the people who constantly push papers go about their task of processing the routine paperwork whether it be personal action such as updating those pesky folders that contain each individuals service history or awards for those crews which could include a Bronze Star {since there is no other similar award for them}.

I'm not so well versed on my AF history but I think the thing about bombing is as current as when the Navy still held the battleship to be the queen of the fleet. How much of that AF CAS is now carried out by UAVs vs A~10s? What is the trend? In that article I posted it was opined that DFCs are not being awarded as much partly due to the trend TOWARD UAVs for CAS. If this PROPOSED medal recognizes the contributions of UAV crews with DFCs returning to being a "Distinguished" award I certainly won't oppose such action.

For the person receiving this award it will not really be placed between a Broze Star or DFC because the wearer will not have either of those awards. Yesterday I was looking at the new base commanders photo and noticed his highest combat award was multiples of the Air Medal. For all that why not at least a DFC? His predecessor had a full rack up to the Silver Star. Does that mean the new guy is a lesser man therefore less the leader? I'm going to have faith in the fact that this man is an O~6 and that his awards don't count for as much as how he otherwise got to where he is now. Even the outgoing CSAF didn't have a very impressive rack but something else about him made him a leader. All this rhubarb over a PROPOSAL has been stimulating and my post yesterday was only intended to be a final shot at how absurd the issue of decorations can become.

[12A54]

In an era of "every kid gets a trophy", many of us are simply tired of this propensity to do the same to an already cluttered military awards system. Do drone operators stationed in Las Vegas need to wear drone pilot wings or a new decoration specific to their specialty? Should every MOS have its own badge and medal? What's wrong with drone operators being like all the other support people who arguably make equally significant contributions, and get decorated for their significant efforts with existing medals? The USAF has an "Operations Support" specialty badge. Isn't that what they do? Or how about the "Weapons Director" badge? I'm sure someone will detail why these were meant for some other interest group and couldn't possibly be applied to drone operators and that's fuel for a different debate. As for medals, these operators aren't in combat or even in the theater of operations. If they make significant contributions to the war effort, there is a menu of perfectly appropriate awards - from achievement to commendation to distinguished service. A pilot might get a DFC for taking out an enemy counterattack; the drone pilot might get an MSM (with a very impressive citation). Achievement, commendable actions, selective distinguished service is what they are doing - just like the intel folks, the logisticians, the planners, the trainers and many thousands of others who are rewarded with existing awards. Where citations related to medals once distinguished the nature of an award, now we lazily want the medal to.

[patches]

In an era of "every kid gets a trophy", many of us are simply tired of this propensity to do the same to an already cluttered military awards system. Do drone operators stationed in Las Vegas need to wear drone pilot wings or a new decoration specific to their specialty? Should every MOS have its own badge and medal? What's wrong with drone operators being like all the other support people who arguably make equally significant contributions, and get decorated for their significant efforts with existing medals? The USAF has an "Operations Support" specialty badge. Isn't that what they do? Or how about the "Weapons Director" badge? I'm sure someone will detail why these were meant for some other interest group and couldn't possibly be applied to drone operators and that's fuel for a different debate. As for medals, these operators aren't in combat or even in the theater of operations. If they make significant contributions to the war effort, there is a menu of perfectly appropriate awards - from achievement to commendation to distinguished service. A pilot might get a DFC for taking out an enemy counterattack; the drone pilot might get an MSM (with a very impressive citation). Achievement, commendable actions, selective distinguished service is what they are doing - just like the intel folks, the logisticians, the planners, the trainers and many thousands of others who are rewarded with existing awards. Where citations related to medals once distinguished the nature of an award, now we lazily want the medal to.

 

And every kid passes a test no matter how low the score, should I go on ? if I did I probably would get Banned from the forum.

[rr01]

Posted at 02:40 PM ET, 07/09/2012

 

By Al Kamen

 

The Pentagon is considering awarding a Distinguished Warfare Medal to drone pilots who work on military bases often far removed from the battlefield.

 

Pentagon officials have been briefed on the medal’s “unique concept,” Charles V. Mugno, head of the Army Institute of Heraldry, told a recent meeting of the Commission of Fine Arts, according to a report in Coin World by our former colleague Bill McAllister.

 

Mugno said most combat decorations require “boots on the ground” in a combat zone, but he noted that “emerging technologies” such as drones and cyber combat missions are now handled by troops far removed from combat.

 

The Pentagon has not formally endorsed the medal, but Mugno’s institute has completed six alternate designs for commission approval.

 

The notion of greater recognition for drone pilots has been percolating for some time. Air Force Maj. Dave Blair, writing in the May-June issue of the Air & Space Power Journal, asked how much difference there is in terms of risk “between 10,000 feet and 10,000 miles.”

 

A “manned aircraft . . . that scrapes the top of a combat zone, well outside the range of any realistic threat” is deemed in “combat,” Blair writes, but a Predator firing a missile is considered “combat support.”

 

The proposed medal would rank between the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Soldier’s Medal for exceptional conduct outside a combat zone.

I think this particular sentence from the original post might have been overlooked. It looks to me like the two awards it will rank between are just as much non~combat awards as the one being proposed/opposed.

[patches]

I think this particular sentence from the original post might have been overlooked. It looks to me like the two awards it will rank between are just as much non~combat awards as the one being proposed/opposed.

 

Yes and no, while it's true it can be awarded for non combat action in aerial flight,the DFC was always one that's been predominatly awarded for action in the face of the enemy in aerial flight. The Soldiers Medal, well this award while awared for non combat action or acts, is awarded to soldiers who risk their life and limb in rescuing their fellows or even civlians from grave or mortal danger.

[rr01]

Yes and no, while it's true it can be awarded for non combat action in aerial flight,the DFC was always one that's been predominatly awarded for action in the face of the enemy in aerial flight. The Soldiers Medal, well this award while awared for non combat action or acts, is awarded to soldiers who risk their life and limb in rescuing their fellows or even civlians from grave or mortal danger.

The first DFCs actually went to civilian pilots for non~combat accomplishments.

I'm not sure what the Soldier's Medal has to do with this since the article mentioned only the DFC & Bronze Star.