12A54 Posted July 28, 2012 Share #1 Posted July 28, 2012 Posted at 02:40 PM ET, 07/09/2012 By Al Kamen The Pentagon is considering awarding a Distinguished Warfare Medal to drone pilots who work on military bases often far removed from the battlefield. Pentagon officials have been briefed on the medal’s “unique concept,” Charles V. Mugno, head of the Army Institute of Heraldry, told a recent meeting of the Commission of Fine Arts, according to a report in Coin World by our former colleague Bill McAllister. Mugno said most combat decorations require “boots on the ground” in a combat zone, but he noted that “emerging technologies” such as drones and cyber combat missions are now handled by troops far removed from combat. The Pentagon has not formally endorsed the medal, but Mugno’s institute has completed six alternate designs for commission approval. The notion of greater recognition for drone pilots has been percolating for some time. Air Force Maj. Dave Blair, writing in the May-June issue of the Air & Space Power Journal, asked how much difference there is in terms of risk “between 10,000 feet and 10,000 miles.” A “manned aircraft . . . that scrapes the top of a combat zone, well outside the range of any realistic threat” is deemed in “combat,” Blair writes, but a Predator firing a missile is considered “combat support.” The proposed medal would rank between the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Soldier’s Medal for exceptional conduct outside a combat zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted July 28, 2012 Share #2 Posted July 28, 2012 :disgust: this is RIDICULOUS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEABEEBRIAN Posted July 28, 2012 Share #3 Posted July 28, 2012 Posted at 02:40 PM ET, 07/09/2012 By Al Kamen The Pentagon is considering awarding a Distinguished Warfare Medal to drone pilots who work on military bases often far removed from the battlefield. Pentagon officials have been briefed on the medal’s “unique concept,” Charles V. Mugno, head of the Army Institute of Heraldry, told a recent meeting of the Commission of Fine Arts, according to a report in Coin World by our former colleague Bill McAllister. Mugno said most combat decorations require “boots on the ground” in a combat zone, but he noted that “emerging technologies” such as drones and cyber combat missions are now handled by troops far removed from combat. The Pentagon has not formally endorsed the medal, but Mugno’s institute has completed six alternate designs for commission approval. The notion of greater recognition for drone pilots has been percolating for some time. Air Force Maj. Dave Blair, writing in the May-June issue of the Air & Space Power Journal, asked how much difference there is in terms of risk “between 10,000 feet and 10,000 miles.” A “manned aircraft . . . that scrapes the top of a combat zone, well outside the range of any realistic threat” is deemed in “combat,” Blair writes, but a Predator firing a missile is considered “combat support.” The proposed medal would rank between the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Soldier’s Medal for exceptional conduct outside a combat zone. No, No, No, No, No. The existing medals are just fine. We don't need more clutter, we need fewer medals and ribbons. I wish TIOH would spend less time on complicated and absurd designs and more time on quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted July 28, 2012 Share #4 Posted July 28, 2012 It was only a matter of time! I'm not saying that it is an easy tast to control a drone, but there is no element of risk to the controller, as there is in battlefield operations. As usual, some will dismiss my opinion because I haven't served, but I do have an opinion. AND, by God, I pay my taxes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ashooter Posted July 28, 2012 Share #5 Posted July 28, 2012 Nope bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODA021 Posted July 28, 2012 Share #6 Posted July 28, 2012 The idea of creating a medal between a DSC and soldiers Medal for a military member who does a 9 to 5 in Vegas then goes home to his family is a bit of a slap in the face for those who do deployment after deployment away from all of those comforts. This is a volunteer military. They chose those jobs recognizing they would be pretty thankless but that they would not have the hardships that other service members do. I also agree that there are so many medals out there. Why not give awards that already exist where the action falls within the guidance already published. An AAM, ARCOM, or MSM is sufficient to recognize achievement and service when the operator is not putting his life at risk. An MSM stateside is the equivalent of a BSM downrange so why wouldn't that fit the bill when the action merits it. It could read something like "Senior airman so and so fired a hellfire into a bus without spilling his root beer. I support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaDave Posted July 28, 2012 Share #7 Posted July 28, 2012 I could see doing the Air Medal with a special drone specific appurtenance, but an entirely new medal, maybe not. DakotaDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted July 28, 2012 Share #8 Posted July 28, 2012 I could see doing the Air Medal with a special drone specific appurtenance, but an entirely new medal, maybe not.DakotaDave Good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decwriter Posted July 29, 2012 Share #9 Posted July 29, 2012 Remotely Piloted Aircraft members (pilots and sensor operators) for the Air Force are already receiving the Aerial Achievement Medal (no other branch equivalent) and according to US Air Forces Central Command (USAFCENT) are not eligible for the Air Medal. This isn't my take, it's in the 2010 USAFCENT Decoration Guidebook. You have to physically be in the air to receive an Air Medal! I doubt anyone will receive something between a DFC and a Soldiers Medal for these actions flown from a remote area. decwriter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted July 29, 2012 Share #10 Posted July 29, 2012 I agree that an achievement medal of some kind is more in order. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronxboymike Posted July 29, 2012 Share #11 Posted July 29, 2012 Air Force Major. Dave Blair asked how much difference there is in terms of risk "between 10,000 feet and 10,000 miles". I'd say the difference is a pretty substantial one. A pilot is actually physically flying an aircraft at 10,000 feet and can be shot down or crash and be KIA. A drone pilot flying a drone from 10,000 miles away can have his drone shot down or crash and go to the Officers Club afterward without a scratch and have a drink to unwind before going home to his or her family. Pretty substantial difference as far personal risk is involved as far as I'm concerned. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted July 29, 2012 Share #12 Posted July 29, 2012 I always love the photos of drone pilots in their flight suits: gotta have that Aramid protection I respect anyone who can fly an aircraft, but as one retired USAF Lt Col said of the drone jockeys, "The basic fact of the matter is no one is shooting back at you. That makes a big difference." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12A54 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted July 29, 2012 DFC - "...heroism or extraordinary achievement while participating in aerial flight...". Soldiers Medal - "For acts of lifesaving, or attempted lifesaving, it is required that the action be performed at the risk of one's own life." (The Call of Duty, Military Awards and Decorations of the United States of America) How a potential new award for a drone operator can be considered as the equivalent of these is beyond understanding. Air Medal - "...distinguishes himself by meritorious service while engaged in military operations involving aerial flight..." Hmmm. That seems to fit. The nature of "aerial operations" is evolving, but this seems to be a solution without a problem. Give 'em an Air Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101CH47 Posted July 29, 2012 Share #14 Posted July 29, 2012 About the equivalent of receiving an award for playing a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkdriver Posted July 30, 2012 Share #15 Posted July 30, 2012 Here we go again. If a Predadork wants real medals, they need to suffer real maladies that real pilots do. Since they are video game players, then let them play games. I have always said that every UAV should have a GI Joe that becomes the Predadork's avatar. If the UAV encounters a problem and either gets shot down or has a mechanical problem that causes it to crash, that they should have to successfully eject that Avatar/GI Joe. If they don't, someone gives them a shovel stroke to the back of the head and their family gets a visit and the SGLI sweepstakes. If they do successfully eject, then they roll a dungeons and dragon die. Some of the options, #1 you successfully evade the enemy but get dysentary and spend four months in a hospital (be given a case of dysentary and actually live in a hospital). #2 You are captured and put in a small cage until the end of the war (actually locked in a closet until the physical end of the war). #3 You successfully ejected, but break your femur on impact, SpecOps rescues you but you are crippled for life (leg actually broken with a mallet) #4 You eject and evade for several weeks but go stark raving mad before being rescued and are mentally unbalanced the rest of your career (made to listen to Nancy Pelosi speeches for several hours) #5 Eject, successfully recovered, but found to be negligent and made to stand a flight evaluation board, found guilty and drummed out of UAV service and made to actually deploy to a combat zone as a gate guard. or #6 the ejection and recovery is by the book and on recover, made to stand in a mass formation as all his superiors are given awards for what THEY did to recover his GI Joe. If they did this, then that would close up that gap between 10,000 feet and miles and I then wouldn't have a problem with them wearing flight suits and getting these awards. But if they don't experience the danger, then they don't experience rewards. Did y'all know that some of these Predadorks are now claiming PTSD for what they see on their monitors, Really??? You can watch the entire DVD collection of Hostel, but get PTSD from what you see through a TV 10,000 miles away. I guess 24 years of having the prospect of burning to death or having my body mangled in a aircraft crash has made me cynical of these folk. We all have our jobs and everyone is necessary to make the team work, but some sacrifice more than others and to give equal reward for this lopsided sacrifice is grating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted July 30, 2012 Share #16 Posted July 30, 2012 They should award them something along the lines of an Army shooting badge. Whether you are designated Marksman, Sharpshooter, or Expert depends on the number of "kills" you achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted July 30, 2012 Share #17 Posted July 30, 2012 They should award them something along the lines of an Army shooting badge. Whether you are designated Marksman, Sharpshooter, or Expert depends on the number of "kills" you achieve. Actually they do that: with a certain number of kills you get a free play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted July 30, 2012 Share #18 Posted July 30, 2012 Actually they do that: with a certain number of kills you get a free play. Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meatcan Posted July 30, 2012 Share #19 Posted July 30, 2012 Actually they do that: with a certain number of kills you get a free play. Funniest thing I've read all day! Good one, FS! Hawk, you pretty much said it all. Nicely done, sir! :thumbsup: Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted July 30, 2012 Share #20 Posted July 30, 2012 Hawk, you pretty much said it all. Nicely done, sir! :thumbsup: Yep, the rest of us can only give an uninformed opinion, but the guys (and gals) who actually leave the ground have the opinions that count. I will say that the modern Air Force has a reputation for handing out ribbons for perhaps too many reasons, so it would be nice if rational minds would look very carefully into this proposal to be sure they don't water down actions that involve real risk and valor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis505 Posted July 30, 2012 Share #21 Posted July 30, 2012 I'm not touching this one...not one bit...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkdriver Posted July 30, 2012 Share #22 Posted July 30, 2012 I don't know what their new medal looks like but I have seen their wing proposal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 30, 2012 Share #23 Posted July 30, 2012 I don't know what their new medal looks like but I have seen their wing proposal Hawk, I thought their wing was going to have a big recliner / captain's chair and a pilot's control stick? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkdriver Posted July 30, 2012 Share #24 Posted July 30, 2012 Hawk, I thought their wing was going to have a big recliner / captain's chair and a pilot's control stick? Bill No, those are the additional pins for the ribbon for subsequent awards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenkursk Posted July 30, 2012 Share #25 Posted July 30, 2012 A bunch of these folks are trained pilots, many of them honest-to-goodness fighter pilots who would MUCH rather be flying, but end up stuck in UAV's. After working their tails off for years, they end up pulling a UAV slot. Google TAMI-21 for more info. Google TAMI-21 and "morale" for even more colorful info. Bottom line is that UAV pilots are needed. Many of them would rather be doing other more glamorous things, but they suck it up and do their bit. As icing on the cake, they also get to be the butt of the joke the whole time they are doing it. I wonder how many of them would welcome the medal, and how many would see it as just another magnet for sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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