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US M-1 vs. Euro Clone Helmet Components Guide!


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#51 cavscout6b

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:28 PM

These are late pattern chinstraps. Notice the underside. (T1 device obscured for contrast.)
On the left; a US issue. On the right; an Austrian copy (U.SCH '74) produced for Denmark.
0927131136a.jpg

Does anyone notice some differences?
1. Notice the Euro model has a slightly larger fastener. (A bit longer & about 1 or 2mm wider.)
2. The catch "arrow" is longer & thinner on the Euro, vs. shorter & wider on the US.
3. The Euro buckle is squared, flat, and more of a point . The US version is a little more rounded on the edges, a less pronounced point, and the curved "dip" on the end. (The anchor is imprinted on the opposite side.)
4. The hourglass shaped cut-out for the claw is wider on the Euro version.
5. The tabs for adjustment wrap completely around the chinstrap on the US issue, versus the Euro that only partially encompass the chinstrap.

#52 cavscout6b

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:37 PM

Just for discussion; I received an Belgian MP helmet with these chinstraps:0927131130.jpg

Belgian marked shell, with a Belgian produced "ABL" liner.
These are the only one I have ever seen. (Perhaps Johann can tell us something about them.)

#53 Johan Willaert

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:50 PM

I've Always assumed those straps to be Dutch rather than Belgian... No idea if they were ever factory attached to Belgian shells or not..



#54 Sabrejet

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:06 AM

It can be very confusing to the uninitiated because of the degree of "cross-fertilization" between these European armies. Initially, WW2 surplus shells and liners were used by Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway and Denmark, so, for example, it's still possible to find a Norwegian helmet with an indigenous liner but a US made shell, albeit re-finished and with different chinstraps etc. When various European / NATO countries began licenced production of their own M1 clones, many were made by W. German and Austrian contractors and purchased by Norway and Denmark. Add to that the minor improvements the individual countries introduced themselves during the helmet's service life and the waters become even more muddied! I won't even mention Israeli and Argentinian M1 clones!!   :o

 

Like with anything else in collecting, it's all down to education and experience. Obviously, we here in Europe encounter these "clones" more frequently than collectors in the USA but some do make it across the pond and end up on the collectors' market. More than once, a "Euro-clone" has appeared on the forum, mistakenly bought as a US M1, so hopefully this thread, although not exhaustive, will help less-experience collectors to identify the various clones which are out there.  Just last night I saw an "eBay classic"...a W. German M59 which has an M1 type shell but is fitted with a WW2 style leather Stahlhelm type liner....being sold as an "original WW2 US M1". It's not the first, nor will it be the last!



#55 Sabrejet

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

As noted above...the interior of a W.German M59. Externally similar to an M1 ( but smaller) Internally......!?  :o

 

 

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  • germ.jpg


#56 Sabrejet

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:45 AM

Then we have the French Casque M51. An M1 derivative with similar suspension and component parts but a differently shaped shell. More than once such shells have been posted on the forum as "unusual M1"...or something like that! Apart from the shape, the shells usually have a  white-paint stamp inside with the date and manufacturer.

 

See here:

 

 

http://www.usmilitar...-its-nottttttt/

Attached Images

  • casque.jpg

Edited by Sabrejet, 28 September 2013 - 03:47 AM.


#57 Sabrejet

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 05:37 AM

Some further T1 buckle comparisons. Belgian on the left, US on the right. The Belgian one is solid brass and the shape is slightly different from the US made buckle. The keeper is also evidently brass. Also note the different weaves of the webbing.

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  • 2013_0928penultimate0003.JPG

Edited by Sabrejet, 28 September 2013 - 05:38 AM.


#58 Sabrejet

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 05:40 AM

"J" hook comparison. The Belgian hook (left) is a slightly different shape and, beneath its finish, quite a bright silver.

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Edited by Sabrejet, 28 September 2013 - 05:40 AM.


#59 GeneralCheese

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:47 AM

What about Canadian stuff?

 

Here is a Canadian sweatband for their M1 helmet.  It is 100% identical to a US sweatband.  It is even made by a US contractor that made them for the US military at the same time.  The only difference is the lack of a US contract number, and instead a Canadian contract number is printed on it.

 

DSCF1395.JPG



#60 patches

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:58 AM

Congratulations my Friend, another one of your Topics has been PINNED.

 

A important and useful Topic Ian, thank's for coming up with this, it will go a million miles in helping determine and separate the American from the European helmets and liners and their parts.



#61 Sabrejet

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 01:17 PM

What about Canadian stuff?

 

Here is a Canadian sweatband for their M1 helmet.  It is 100% identical to a US sweatband.  It is even made by a US contractor that made them for the US military at the same time.  The only difference is the lack of a US contract number, and instead a Canadian contract number is printed on it.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF1395.JPG

 

 

Very interesting General! I knew that the Canadians manufactured M1 shells for both themselves and the US Army too, but I didn't know that American sweatbands were procured under Canadian contacts! I've got several Steinberg Bros., examples....identical to your example apart from the Canadian contract number.


Edited by Sabrejet, 28 September 2013 - 01:18 PM.


#62 Sabrejet

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:05 PM

See...they pop up all over the place!

 

http://www.usmilitar...095-odd-helmet/



#63 Burning Hazard

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:01 PM

Can we also include Israeli and Iraqi M1 clones or are we keeping this strictly to Euro clones?

 

Also, would M1's used by Italy after the war count? I have one used by Italians that may or may not be US manufactured (Front seam swivel bail with heat stamp 101E and no signs of conversion from a fixed bail based on heat stamp records)

 

Thanks guys!



#64 GeneralCheese

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:04 PM

Can we also include Israeli and Iraqi M1 clones or are we keeping this strictly to Euro clones?

 

Also, would M1's used by Italy after the war count? I have one used by Italians that may or may not be US manufactured (Front seam swivel bail with heat stamp 101E and no signs of conversion from a fixed bail based on heat stamp records)

 

Thanks guys!

 

Seeing as I posted a Canadian copy, you should be fine.  This is to help people avoid buying copies from everywhere, not just Europe.  Plus, Israeli M1s are often harder to distinguish if they don't have that third bail, so a side by side would be nice.



#65 cavscout6b

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:35 PM

As noted above...the interior of a W.German M59. Externally similar to an M1 ( but smaller) Internally......!?  :o
 
 


Has anyone seen these liners used in anything other than German helmets?

#66 Sabrejet

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:16 AM

We might be throwing the net too wide if we include Israeli and Iraqi cones too? Very briefly, the IDF ballistic nylon liner is an almost exact copy of the US original. However, they are easily identified by the "ZAHAL" (Army) logo molded on the inside. The shells are very close to the US M1 but with a third bail added at the rear. Also, the IDF used  US M1 shells/liners as the basis for a tank helmet which was basically a regular infantry helmet with the side pieces of a US style M38 tanker helmet riveted to the shell, along with a leather neck protector.

 

As far as Iraqi "M1s" go, their "M80" was actually an M1 clone imported from South Korea. Again, very close to the US original but with various Iraqi Army property marks added. Their later sand coloured plastic helmets have M1 type features but could never be mistaken for M1s!

 

Confusing isn't it!?  :wacko:



#67 Sabrejet

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:31 AM

Another potential source of confusion for M1 helmet collectors are the copies of the US Type 1 (" M-44") camo net used by the Scandinavian armies. They are very similar to the US original but, on closer inspection, there are differences in the weave and colour etc. Such nets are frequently sold as "US originals" on the likes of eBay, so be warned! Originals are quite hard to come by these days and their elastic helmet bands are commonly hard/stiff so they won't stretch over your shell. On the other hand, the Euro-copies, being "newer" are still usable. Be warned...it has been known for some unscrupulous sellers to add a photo-facsimile of  USGI issue labels to Euro-nets!!   :o  The link below illustrates the differences and similarities very well.  (Side note: a re-enactor friend of mine regularly uses a Euro-net on his M1. It's slightly more "green" than a US OD original...but passable nevertheless!)

 

 

http://www.matshelmets.se/nets.html



#68 Sabrejet

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:11 AM

Danish version of US WW2 net as worn on a Danish M1.

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#69 Sabrejet

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:41 AM

Typically to be found on eBayUK...a NATO "M1". At least in this instance the seller has correctly identified it!

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...e-/171073617951

 

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  • nato.JPG


#70 Sabrejet

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:41 AM

This is a classic example of a Euro-clone being sold on eBay as "US Army M1 Helmet....."

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3a8359a1a6

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  • euro.JPG

Edited by Sabrejet, 30 September 2013 - 03:41 AM.


#71 patches

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:31 PM

Then we have the French Casque M51. An M1 derivative with similar suspension and component parts but a differently shaped shell. More than once such shells have been posted on the forum as "unusual M1"...or something like that! Apart from the shape, the shells usually have a  white-paint stamp inside with the date and manufacturer.

 

See here:

 

 

http://www.usmilitar...-its-nottttttt/

Ian what's the liner look like for this French M51 helmet? Can you post it?



#72 Sabrejet

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:36 PM

Voila monsieur!  Look familiar? Obviously, its shape follows the contours of the French shell, but its interior is pure M1.

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  • casque.jpg


#73 patches

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:04 PM

Is there an outside exteriour shot of the French liner? I only ask because it's important to see the whol thing to get a id of it, It sometimes appears, this French M51 liner in photos being worn in the early period of the 2nd Indochina war (ie The Vietnam War) by ARVN, with it being incorrectly captioned as U.S. if it's captioned at all.



#74 Sabrejet

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:58 PM

Here you go Kevin....a Casque M51 liner. The main difference is the flared rear rim...also present on the shell.

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  • 8709317_orig.jpg

Edited by Sabrejet, 30 September 2013 - 09:59 PM.


#75 Sabrejet

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:41 AM

French '51 pattern "OTAN" helmet shells and liners usually bear clear white stampings inside them containing the date and manufacturer's logo, as below. I recall once seeing a French liner on eBayUS listed as an "original" WW2 GI liner. The ad featured good, clear photographs including a close up of the crown stamping which read something like " M.LECLERC ET FILS, 1953"  as clear as day! So, I sent a polite internal message pointing out the fact that the liner was, in fact, clearly of French origin. The seller ignored me completely, the listing remained unchanged....and the item ultimately unsold!

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  • otan.jpg
  • headphones-liner-mle-1951-army-french-063.jpg



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