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Norman D. Landing


bilko1

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That is a very interesting picture. Many many years ago a WWII veteran once told me that towards the end of the war they started seeing some dead German soldiers with long hair. He and the other soldiers thought it unusual to see them without short cropped hair. I dont remember exactly where or when this was, but think it was in Germany. He didn't say anything about them being female. 

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Johan Willaert
10 hours ago, General Apathy said:

 

In the album there is also a photograph of a second woman again in German army trousers and sweater.

 

fullsizeoutput_8148.jpeg.7acc246c2794d286fd2f6db52bd5148d.jpeg


I could be mistaken but I believe I have seen this photo before captioned as a female concentration camp guard upon her arrest.

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Johan Willaert
32 minutes ago, Johan Willaert said:


I could be mistaken but I believe I have seen this photo before captioned as a female concentration camp guard upon her arrest.

 

And I was mistaken...

This is it:

 

The woman is Irene Reimann, a Luftwaffe Telegraphist who had been billeted in Wolfheze. The only female POW of the battle, she was captured by troops from 7th Bn KOSB on 17 September 1944, shortly after the arrival of the first lift.

One of the secondary duties for the Glider Pilot Regiment was to guard POWs.

Another photo of her:  https://www.paradata.org.uk/media/1911

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Johan Willaert
11 hours ago, General Apathy said:

fullsizeoutput_8148.jpeg.7acc246c2794d286fd2f6db52bd5148d.jpeg

 

 

Irene Reimann, a German WAAF (Blitzmadschen) telephonist of Luft-Nachrichten-Regiment 201, the unit manning the headquarters bunker of the Luftwaffe's 3 Jagd-Division at Schaarsbergen which controlled the two Luftwaffe radar and communications stations, 'Teerose I' and 'Teerose II' located east of Deelen airfield. She was captured in civilian clothing on the first day by the 7th King's Own Scottish Borderers. She refused all food until it was tasted by British troops, fearing that it was poisoned. The photo was likely taken at 1st Airlanding Brigade HQ. The photographer, Sergeant Dennis Smith of the Army Film and Photographic Unit, noted: "At first she refused to be photographed and eventually was found hiding behind this wooden hut".  Copyright: IWM BU1096

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General Apathy

.

On behalf of Norman D. Landing thread . . . . . . . . 

 

fullsizeoutput_818e.jpeg.92c4eb0ea13823f276aef90dd3147c35.jpeg.

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 27  2020.

 

.

 

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10 hours ago, mikie said:

That is a very interesting picture. Many many years ago a WWII veteran once told me that towards the end of the war they started seeing some dead German soldiers with long hair. He and the other soldiers thought it unusual to see them without short cropped hair. I dont remember exactly where or when this was, but think it was in Germany. He didn't say anything about them being female. 

 

The overall short cropped hair wasn't all that common in the German army; a common style of that time was short on the sides but quite long (to modern standards) on top and it is possible that is what we see in this pic.

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General Apathy
44 minutes ago, Johan Willaert said:

 

 

Irene Reimann, a German WAAF (Blitzmadschen) telephonist of Luft-Nachrichten-Regiment 201, the unit manning the headquarters bunker of the Luftwaffe's 3 Jagd-Division at Schaarsbergen which controlled the two Luftwaffe radar and communications stations, 'Teerose I' and 'Teerose II' located east of Deelen airfield. She was captured in civilian clothing on the first day by the 7th King's Own Scottish Borderers. She refused all food until it was tasted by British troops, fearing that it was poisoned. The photo was likely taken at 1st Airlanding Brigade HQ. The photographer, Sergeant Dennis Smith of the Army Film and Photographic Unit, noted: "At first she refused to be photographed and eventually was found hiding behind this wooden hut".  Copyright: IWM BU1096

.

Hi Johan,  thanks for adding all this detail about the woman POW, I will pencil in these details to the rear of the photo in the album.

 

If anything details come to light about the body on the floor image I would be pleased to have that as well.

 

Here's a shot of three cameramen during the Arnhem campaign, Sgt. Dennis Smith you mentioned above is to the left of the three.

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 28  2020.

 

.fullsizeoutput_818f.jpeg.dcf2fcf579ade5031c9c48a29934465b.jpeg

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General Apathy
22 minutes ago, earlymb said:

 

The overall short cropped hair wasn't all that common in the German army; a common style of that time was short on the sides but quite long (to modern standards) on top and it is possible that is what we see in this pic.

.

Hi earlymb,  thanks for joining in. ;)

 

I figured a woman might have more of an idea on female hairstyles so I consulted Jane, and she is pretty sure it is a style very popular during the wartime period, women tended to have the hair pulled backwards with ringlets behind the ears. In the photo below the left hand arrow points to hair that is curled as per ringlets of the period, and the right hand arrow appears to show a headband with tufts of hair held in the band.  ????

 

Also a photo of several similar 1940's hairstyles I found this on the ' Vintagethimble ' website. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 28  2020.

 

.fullsizeoutput_819d.jpeg.5c871775cc0d3c4ec60e16d86a150a69.jpeg

 

.f89d1179a76c4e705e837652996d7a12.jpg.bfcbf25684f37517114c9086f50951ab.jpg

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General Apathy
52 minutes ago, pararaftanr2 said:

Hi Ken,

A Google image search turned up that photo in a couple of places. A bit more information for you on the circumstances, but not the victim:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205192008

 

A "Then and Now":

https://www.tracesofwar.nl/news/2569/Fotoverslag-Market-Garden-Toen-en-Nu.htm

 

 

.

Hi pararaftanr,

 

Thanks for joining in and adding the two websites, I especially like the second one having visited the area many times over the years.

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 28  2020.

 

.

 

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General Apathy

.

At this time of year . . . . . . . 

 

The image below is just a little bit of fun,  but if you can please help your favourite charities, people, animals, ex-service personnel, or whatever you have thoughts of helping . . . . . . . . . . 

 

.fullsizeoutput_81dd.jpeg.ec00f7984fce73052a218a22d03fe88c.jpeg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 28  2020.

 

.

 

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3 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

At this time of year . . . . . . . 

 

The image below is just a little bit of fun,  but if you can please help your favourite charities, people, animals, ex-service personnel, or whatever you have thoughts of helping . . . . . . . . . . 

 

.fullsizeoutput_81dd.jpeg.ec00f7984fce73052a218a22d03fe88c.jpeg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 28  2020.

 

.

 

 

ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.jpg

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7 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

On behalf of Norman D. Landing thread . . . . . . . . 

 

fullsizeoutput_818e.jpeg.92c4eb0ea13823f276aef90dd3147c35.jpeg.

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 27  2020.

 

.

 

Woohoo!  Thank you, Ken, and one and all who help keep this wonderful place jeeping along!  Hopefully somewhere, Mr Bilko will be happy to see what he started.

 

Mikie

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5 hours ago, pararaftanr2 said:

Hi Ken,

A Google image search turned up that photo in a couple of places. A bit more information for you on the circumstances, but not the victim:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205192008

 

A "Then and Now":

https://www.tracesofwar.nl/news/2569/Fotoverslag-Market-Garden-Toen-en-Nu.htm

 

 

All very strange. Seems to me that if it was a woman soldier infiltrating the lines, the caption would have made note of it.  That would have been news!  

 

Mikie

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6 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hi earlymb,  thanks for joining in. ;)

 

I figured a woman might have more of an idea on female hairstyles so I consulted Jane, and she is pretty sure it is a style very popular during the wartime period, women tended to have the hair pulled backwards with ringlets behind the ears. In the photo below the left hand arrow points to hair that is curled as per ringlets of the period, and the right hand arrow appears to show a headband with tufts of hair held in the band.  ????

 

Also a photo of several similar 1940's hairstyles I found this on the ' Vintagethimble ' website. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 28  2020.

 

.fullsizeoutput_819d.jpeg.5c871775cc0d3c4ec60e16d86a150a69.jpeg

 

.

 

Unless that's the result of severe head trauma, even with the lack of blood. Although at the moment we don't have enough information to get a definitive conclusion, I am pretty certain this is a male soldier as it made no sense for the Germans to have their female military personnel engage in combat at this stage of the war, rather then just pull them back from the danger zone, even if that didn't always succeed.

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9 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hi earlymb,  thanks for joining in. ;)

 

I figured a woman might have more of an idea on female hairstyles so I consulted Jane, and she is pretty sure it is a style very popular during the wartime period, women tended to have the hair pulled backwards with ringlets behind the ears. In the photo below the left hand arrow points to hair that is curled as per ringlets of the period, and the right hand arrow appears to show a headband with tufts of hair held in the band.  ????

 

Also a photo of several similar 1940's hairstyles I found this on the ' Vintagethimble ' website. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 28  2020.

 

.fullsizeoutput_819d.jpeg.5c871775cc0d3c4ec60e16d86a150a69.jpeg

 

 

Ken,

 

I am with you. I believe this could be a woman. The fact that a female telegrapher was captured in civilian clothes proves there were female military personnel in the area. This could have been a woman in her own uniform or a "borrowed" uniform. The fact that her hair was pulled back in a ponytail. The fact that as you say looks like curls from the era. All sorts of things could prove this is a woman. Many women (both military and civilian) were killed in the war. IMO, the fact that they do not mention this is a woman doesn't prove anything one way or the other. It is a mystery.

 

...Kat

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7 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

At this time of year . . . . . . . 

 

The image below is just a little bit of fun,  but if you can please help your favourite charities, people, animals, ex-service personnel, or whatever you have thoughts of helping . . . . . . . . . . 

 

.fullsizeoutput_81dd.jpeg.ec00f7984fce73052a218a22d03fe88c.jpeg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 28  2020.

 

.

 

Here ya go, it's a start

 

Only-fools-and-horses.jpg.a8cdaa4395b17dd6e53bc8d397071d26.jpg

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13 hours ago, cutiger83 said:

Ken,

 

I am with you. I believe this could be a woman. The fact that a female telegrapher was captured in civilian clothes proves there were female military personnel in the area. This could have been a woman in her own uniform or a "borrowed" uniform. The fact that her hair was pulled back in a ponytail. The fact that as you say looks like curls from the era. All sorts of things could prove this is a woman. Many women (both military and civilian) were killed in the war. IMO, the fact that they do not mention this is a woman doesn't prove anything one way or the other. It is a mystery.

 

...Kat

 

In full combat gear, advancing towards a known British position (according to the IWM caption)? Not impossible but highly unlikely, this was still almost a year away from Berlin 1945. If this was a female soldier it would certainly have been noted somewhere as it would indicate the Germans were using female personnel as assault troops which would make it valuable information for intelligence and/or propaganda. There were plenty of opportunities for female personnel to get KIA (bombings, getting caught in artillery fire, vehicles being strafed etc.) but in this stage of the war there just wasn't any reason to use them as assault troops. Again, not impossible but highly unlikely... although stranger things have happened in war.

 

But I'm sure there are German casualty lists for this battle, even if female military personnel got killed it won't be many (if any) and it might be possible to research those cases.

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A possible clue? I found this interesting article: https://airbornearnhem.nl/WillemTiemens/Female POW.htm

 

It identifies the female POW pictured a few posts back, as well as her unit in the Luftwaffe. This confirms there were other German female personnel in the area at the time. I'm not up to speed on Luftwaffe ground troop, or para, uniforms and kit, but can you experts ID any of the clothing and gear on the fallen figure as being Luftwaffe possibly?

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2 hours ago, earlymb said:

 

In full combat gear, advancing towards a known British position (according to the IWM caption)? Not impossible but highly unlikely, this was still almost a year away from Berlin 1945. If this was a female soldier it would certainly have been noted somewhere as it would indicate the Germans were using female personnel as assault troops which would make it valuable information for intelligence and/or propaganda. There were plenty of opportunities for female personnel to get KIA (bombings, getting caught in artillery fire, vehicles being strafed etc.) but in this stage of the war there just wasn't any reason to use them as assault troops. Again, not impossible but highly unlikely... although stranger things have happened in war.

 

But I'm sure there are German casualty lists for this battle, even if female military personnel got killed it won't be many (if any) and it might be possible to research those cases.

 

I am not saying this was a female assault troop solider. The caption says a soldier trying to infiltrate. If this casualty was not turned over to see the face before the photographer left the scene, it would not be known if it was a man or woman. I am just saying it could have been a woman who put on a man's uniform in order to sneak out and escape the fighting. In the book, Spearhead, a man and woman drove their car directly into the middle of a tank battle and were killed. Strange things happened in war. IMO, I am just saying don't get stuck on the thought that this was an assault soldier who was killed. As I said, it is a mystery. 

 

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General Apathy

.

Hahhaaaa time to move on or this one will keep rolling . . . . . . . . . . . . 

 

But before we leave females in wartime take a look at this 1951 film portraying a female photographer / reporter,  for 1951 that's a beautiful new unissued Hawley liner hanging on the Jeep windscreen, wouldn't everyone love one in this condition.  :lol:

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 29  2020.

 

.fullsizeoutput_8229.jpeg.8182c1f375d49c4f782f5ddbcc2eb9c2.jpeg

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hahhaaaa time to move on or this one will keep rolling . . . . . . . . . . . . 

 

But before we leave females in wartime take a look at this 1951 film portraying a female photographer / reporter,  for 1951 that's a beautiful new unissued Hawley liner hanging on the Jeep windscreen, wouldn't everyone love one in this condition.  :lol:

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 29  2020.

 

 

Ken,

 

There were a couple of well known female reporters in WWII. Did the movie portray any of them?

 

...Kat

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General Apathy

.

Hi Kate,  it wasn't that an accurate presentation, the female reporter was just the love interest in the film, it just happened that that particularly nice Hawley liner turned up in a 1951 film hanging on a Jeep..

 

In another scene I had a really hard job to try and read store front names, which was explained once I saw that the Jeep shown here was a reversed image and the Jeep became right-hand drive . . . . . Some people might now think that there were right hand drive Jeeps in the war.

 

Talking of right hand drive Jeeps a friend Peter visited Australia about twenty-five years ago and happened upon a military show. He was looking over the Jeeps and talking to the owners when he spotted a right-hand drive Jeep, the owner of which offered to let him drive it around the arena during the convoy display.  Once Peter got in and tried to follow the vehicle in front things went very wrong, the Jeep went in the opposite direction to which he turned the wheel, and they all were waiting for that and laughing at Peter's perplexed looks.  The owner had taken the cheap option and simply turned the steering box upside down to connect to the chassis on the right-hand side, he of course was used to the weird steering. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 29  2020.

 

.fullsizeoutput_8237.jpeg.017012c2f3de3abf1d447cb8415d1e51.jpeg

 

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1 hour ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hahhaaaa time to move on or this one will keep rolling . . . . . . . . . . . . 

 

But before we leave females in wartime take a look at this 1951 film portraying a female photographer / reporter,  for 1951 that's a beautiful new unissued Hawley liner hanging on the Jeep windscreen, wouldn't everyone love one in this condition.  :lol:

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, December 29  2020.

 

.fullsizeoutput_8229.jpeg.8182c1f375d49c4f782f5ddbcc2eb9c2.jpeg

 

 

 

Hi Ken, I had the same Hawley reaction when I saw this picture for the first time. It's a strange affliction..........😄

 

12998282_880425402080937_7106874921796627944_o.jpg.47aa6d9fef7f856455598a83ba84deee.jpg

 

 

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