I was just given a bunch of patches... what are they?

[billl]

Generally speaking, I don't collect patches, but I was recently given a bunch of patches. They came with some clues that they may be from late WWII or Korea, but that's unclear.  What have I got?

[billl]

More.

[billl]

Still more.

[billl]

And more.

[Tolzer]

Those Bullion Patches are soooo nice!

 

[e19]

The Thunderbird patch = 45th Infantry Division.

[e19]

A bit of 45th SSI history.
https://45thdivisionmuseum.com/index.php/history/from-swastika-to-thunderbird/

[CavalryCombatant]

First Set is.

45th Infantry division  (x2)

4th Army Airforce 

Second Set is.
7th Infantry division

4th Airforce
6th Army

Third Set is.

7th Infantry division 

Anti Aircraft defense 

 

Last set is.

7th Armored division 

Navy Minesweepers 

Seabees 

6th Army

[manayunkman]

A couple of nice bullion ones in there!

[billl]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:03 PM, billl said:

Generally speaking, I don't collect patches, but I was recently given a bunch of patches. They came with some clues that they may be from late WWII or Korea, but that's unclear.  What have I got?

 

 

According to the Museum of the 45th Infantry Division, this patch was made in Italy, probably during WWII, or immediately after WWII. 

 

 

 

 

[billl]

On 2/24/2022 at 5:25 PM, manayunkman said:

A couple of nice bullion ones in there!

The bullion Thunderbird patch, according to the Museum of the 45th infantry Division, was made in Italy, probably late in the war, or immediately after WWII.

 

[Wake1941]

10 minutes ago, billl said:

The bullion Thunderbird patch, according to the Museum of the 45th infantry Division, was made in Italy, probably late in the war, or immediately after WWII.

 

It’s Korean made, Korean War era 

[billl]

14 minutes ago, Wake1941 said:

It’s Korean made, Korean War era 

I got an email from the Museum of the 45th Infantry Division yesterday that says definitively that it is Italy.

They specifically and explicitly stated "This was not made in Korea." 

[doyler]

16 minutes ago, Wake1941 said:

It’s Korean made, Korean War era 

 

 

Agree

 

Japan/Korea made. Same bullion work as the 7th ID bullion patch.

[Wake1941]

11 minutes ago, billl said:

I got an email from the Museum of the 45th Infantry Division yesterday that says definitively that it is Italy.

They specifically and explicitly stated "This was not made in Korea." 

Sorry but that construction is nothing like Italian pieces 

[billl]

4 minutes ago, Wake1941 said:

Sorry but that construction is nothing like Italian pieces 

A buyer will need to decide who has more credence.  Me?  I don't collect patches, so I have no personal opinion, but I defer to the museum. But thanks for sharing your opinion.

[stratasfan]

I'd want some more discussion with the museum before considering it definitive. The one thing you have to realise is that personnel at museums are just people (to quote one of my favorite screen lines - "They're just people, like you an me!"). They don't always have definitive proof. Not saying one way or the other about your particular experience, but just because someone having something to do with a museum says something . . . don't take it for more than something else, unless they give you solid reasons. 

 

Just a practical example . . . Say someone writes in to the USMF Contact Us form, and asks about  a patch. I could answer with information and that person can go anywhere and say that USMF says that this patch is such-and-such. Doesn't mean it is true or that I knew what I was saying in that instance or that I am better than someone else they may ask. Just means that the person who answered for this "organization" said this. Now, if I provided reasons and/or examples of why I said it . . . then that makes it better. Not just because I "work" for USMF. 

 

Again, I have no idea about your particular patch or the museum you talked to. Just saying that all museum contact and information isn't the end of the line. I just speak form experience.

[billl]

In this case, the opinion was by the museum curator (not a staff person) and the opinion was delivered to me after showing the photos to several people at the museum, including the Director. They apparently have a large display of patches and other memorabilia with provenance. But I don't disagree. In the end, any buyer will need to decide for themself. I won't guarantee any particular vintage for the patch - but I will pass on the Museum's opinion. Since I don't collect patches, further inquiry will be left to a prospective buyer - no further research is warranted by me, since I am not buying, and won't keep it.

 

I write for various history magazines, and I understand your point.  I've received things that came with stories that I know just aren't true.  Things like "My Dad bought a jeep in a crate after the war for $50."  It didn't happen.

 

Your opinion nicely summarized in your last sentence, and is appreciated. 

[stratasfan]

6 minutes ago, billl said:

In this case, the opinion was by the museum curator (not a staff person) and the opinion was delivered to me after showing the photos to several people at the museum, including the Director. They apparently have a large display of patches and other memorabilia with provenance. But I don't disagree. In the end, any buyer will need to decide for themself. I won't guarantee any particular vintage for the patch - but I will pass on the Museum's opinion. Since I don't collect patches, further inquiry will be left to a prospective buyer - no further research is warranted by me, since I am not buying, and won't keep it.

 

I write for various history magazines, and I understand your point.  I've received things that came with stories that I know just aren't true.  Things like "My Dad bought a jeep in a crate after the war for $50."  It didn't happen.

 

Your opinion nicely summarized in your last sentence, and is appreciated. 

 

That's exactly it! Lots of museum people do know their stuff, lots don't. Lots of forum people know their stuff, lots don't! Just to say that anybody should always actually weigh opinions and experience and proofs, etc. Of course, trust comes in at some point, too! Just . . . make sure you think it out! 

 

Good job . . . I agree about it being the buyer's ultimate choice. Of course, the seller can pass on any information they have, but ultimately that buyer should be happy with it before they press that "buy" button. :)  I looked at your bullion patch, and while I don't know a ton, I will say that the sloppy back that you can see under the backing fabric does fit in with Italian made stuff. Italian patches tend to be rather sloppy compared to others. Of course, there are always exceptions ot that, too! :) 

[Salvage Sailor]

My usual note to folks not familiar with the Minesweeper patch, it's upside down

The Blue is the Sea with the mine cable going to the seabed, the sky above is golden like this

RIGHT

 

WRONG

 

Nice patches, carry on.....

[CavalryCombatant]

32 minutes ago, Salvage Sailor said:

My usual note to folks not familiar with the Minesweeper patch, it's upside down

The Blue is the Sea with the mine cable going to the seabed, the sky above is golden like this

RIGHT

 

 

WRONG

 

 

Nice patches, carry on.....

Never knew that, I don’t really collect navy but that’s not something I’ve ever noticed.

[stratasfan]

Thanks for the opinions! Just closing this thread as the OP has received a lot of information and thoughts to sort through now.