Jump to content

WASP Flight Utility Cap


hirsca

Recommended Posts

Estate sale find today. Pretty sure it is the real thing, but I thought that I would let it pass muster before of the USMF gurus. Also came with the other items. The WASP pin has short clutch pins and has flat faced sterling silver clutches. The Air Training Command DUI's look like new repro's. And, would the WASPS been authorized to wear the USAAF SSI?.

 

Also, any estimate on the worth of the cap?

 

Thanks in advance, Al.

post-12790-0-11184800-1423784716.jpg

post-12790-0-93767800-1423784737.jpg

post-12790-0-25925900-1423784756.jpg

post-12790-0-33500400-1423784776.jpg

post-12790-0-62025600-1423784797.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

That is the real issue WASP utility cap

 

Thank you! Now, I don't think initially that the WASP's were a part of the USAAF, so would/when, if ever, would they have been qualified to wear the USAAF SSI? Thanks, Al.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thank you! Now, I don't think initially that the WASP's were a part of the USAAF, so would/when, if ever, would they have been qualified to wear the USAAF SSI? Thanks, Al.

 

 

Al,

 

VERY nice items! The WASPS were never made a part of the USAAF but they were authorized to wear the Air Corps patch.

 

This is from the Blitzkrieg website for the WAFS.

 

"The General Army Airforces Headquarters patch was worn on the upper left sleeve. A half-circle tab with the letters WAFS embroidered in blue was sewn below the AAF patch. Above the left breast pocket, the Air Transport Command / Ferrying Division (ATC/FD) wings were worn and the ATC/FD disk on the shoulder loops. A small pair of wings with the vertical silver propeller, as used by the Air Corps, were pinned on the lapels of the jacket and on the left front of the garrison cap. "

 

 

This is from the same website for the WASPS:

 

"The following insignia were worn with this uniform. The AAF General Headquarter's patch was sewn on the upper left sleeve of the shirts. The WASP wings were worn above the left breast pocket and a small pair of wings with the vertical silver propeller, as used by the Air Corps, were pinned on the lapels of the jacket and on the left front of the garrison cap. "

 

....Kat

spacer.png

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, did you get her name at the estate sale? Is there a way you can find out her name?

 

....Kat

 

Hi Kat:

 

Thanks for the info. I have spent several hours searching for info on WASPS in general and her in particular. This is what I found this morning.

 

Thanks, Al.

 

Well, it looks like you can't open the link. What I did was look up the ownership records on our county tax data base for the address where the estate sale was held. Started Googling the name and she came up on waspfinalflight.BlogSpot.com.

wasp-ruth-hagemann-wheeler-43-w-51.html

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also----would the WASP trainees ever have worn this DUI during training? Thanks, Al.

 

Al,

 

I am not sure about this DUI. I will look thru my reference books and let you know if I find anything. I also have several books about the WASPS. I will look for Ruth and let you know what I find.

 

In the meantime, have you ever seen this website. It has some great info:

 

http://wingsacrossamerica.us/wasp/

 

 

This is also another great website. I did a search for Ruth on this website. Looks like they have some info too.

 

http://www.twu.edu/library/wasp.asp

 

...Kat

spacer.png

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a search for her on the Texas Women's website. Looks like she flew C-47, AT-6, PT-19, and UC-78. She was stationed at New Castle Army Air Base, Love Field, Altus Air Field,

 

I saw pictures of various DUI's in one of my reference books but did not see this one. That doesn't mean that they did not wear this one. I am still looking but I believe she may have worn this one. I will let you know if I find anything. :)

 

...Kat

spacer.png

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a search for her on the Texas Women's website. Looks like she flew C-47, AT-6, PT-19, and UC-78. She was stationed at New Castle Army Air Base, Love Field, Altus Air Field,

 

I saw pictures of various DUI's in one of my reference books but did not see this one. That doesn't mean that they did not wear this one. I am still looking but I believe she may have worn this one. I will let you know if I find anything. :)

 

...Kat

 

Thanks Kat. The DUI is for the Army Air Forces Training Command and might have been worn before the WASP's earned their wings. Thanks for the details on planes flown and bases stationed at. One of them was/is Love Field, right here in Dallas and still going strong. Thanks again, Al.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice find!!

 

As for the value, WASP items are incredibly rare & hard to come by, and thus VERY expensive. They were only over 1,000 original WASP and many of the items are now in museums or just plain worn out/thrown away. I have only very, very rarely seen random uniform pieces come up for sale, and they go for very high sums. On a semi-educated guess (I have been out of collecting for about 2 years now) I would say probably at least $300 on that hat, and please note I could be low on that. I had a massive museum-quality US women's collection and a lot of contact with original WASP and WASP Museums, and I've never seen one available before. Yours also appears to be in pretty nice condition, which is a bonus. They're definitely few & far between.

 

WASP were authorized to wear the AAF patch. That's well documented in photos, both on the Santiago blue uniforms as well as the pre-Santiago men's pinks & greens they wore. The DUI I don't recognize, but that doesn't mean much. Many WASP were assigned to Training Command & Ferrying Command, and the wearing of those insignia is also well documented. It would not have been worn during training - only after wings were earned, depending on where the WASP was assigned. Since that DUI appears to be for a training command,

it's entirely possible she wore those. To the best of my knowledge they never wore DUIs or any other insignia during training. It's also just possible she got it in a swap or something from a guy she met on base. Who knows!

 

I still have contacts with the WASP Museum & the TWU WASP archive in Denton. Let me know if you'd like me to put you in touch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice find!!

 

As for the value, WASP items are incredibly rare & hard to come by, and thus VERY expensive. They were only over 1,000 original WASP and many of the items are now in museums or just plain worn out/thrown away. I have only very, very rarely seen random uniform pieces come up for sale, and they go for very high sums. On a semi-educated guess (I have been out of collecting for about 2 years now) I would say probably at least $300 on that hat, and please note I could be low on that. I had a massive museum-quality US women's collection and a lot of contact with original WASP and WASP Museums, and I've never seen one available before. Yours also appears to be in pretty nice condition, which is a bonus. They're definitely few & far between.

 

WASP were authorized to wear the AAF patch. That's well documented in photos, both on the Santiago blue uniforms as well as the pre-Santiago men's pinks & greens they wore. The DUI I don't recognize, but that doesn't mean much. Many WASP were assigned to Training Command & Ferrying Command, and the wearing of those insignia is also well documented. It would not have been worn during training - only after wings were earned, depending on where the WASP was assigned. Since that DUI appears to be for a training command,

it's entirely possible she wore those. To the best of my knowledge they never wore DUIs or any other insignia during training. It's also just possible she got it in a swap or something from a guy she met on base. Who knows!

 

I still have contacts with the WASP Museum & the TWU WASP archive in Denton. Let me know if you'd like me to put you in touch.

 

Well, well, long time no hear from Ms. fortworthgal. I think the last time we met was at one of Bill Nagasi's now defunct Fort Worth military shows. Al and Kathy from Dallas are we, had a couple of tables full of militaria. Sorry to hear that you aren't collecting any more.

 

Anyway, I digress. Thanks much for the info. Kathy found the items at the estate sale. I knew what they were and fortunately the people running the estate sale did not. Sure would like to contact the WASP Museum and the TWU WASP archive. Sending you a PM with our contact info. Look forward to hearing from you. Thanks, Al.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I remember you well! I think I got a nice NNC hospital dress from you. :)

 

I'll get that information together for you & put you in touch with them tomorrow. I'm glad you were able to get the cap for what sounds like a song! At least someone knew what it was. Wonder what other WASP memorabilia came out of that sale!

Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I remember you well! I think I got a nice NNC hospital dress from you. :)

 

I'll get that information together for you & put you in touch with them tomorrow. I'm glad you were able to get the cap for what sounds like a song! At least someone knew what it was. Wonder what other WASP memorabilia came out of that sale!

 

Good morning. Yes, you are correct about the NNC hospital dress. Good memory. Sometimes by noon I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

 

Other than two pillow shams, we did not find anything else. We arrived at the sale later in the afternoon and who knows what else might have been sold earlier. They wanted $30 each for the pillow shams, so I passed on them. Probably should have bought them. Thanks for your help. Al.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some information on the DI you have:

 

Approved for wear on July 24, 1942, these DI were worn to
denote assignment to the Army Air Corps Training Command, and would later be replaced upon reassignment.
The modern interpretation is "Keep them flying."

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Always looking for 4th Fighter Group and 490th Bomb Group items.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The DUI that says Air Training Command is a real insignia, but it isn't WWII or a DUI...that's a beret crest worn during the 1960-1990s (before ATC was redesignated the Air Education and Training Command). The Security Police (as it was in those days) wore them, and I wore one on my Honor Guard beret....

 

 

Mark sends

Mark Conrad, MSgt, USAF (Ret)
"Poor is the nation that has no Heroes...shameful is the one having them that forgets."

The Miami Valley Military History Museum: http://www.mvmhm.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Miami-Valley-Military-History-Museum/111268115594349
Official Partner of the United States of America Vietnam War Commemoration: www.vietnamwar50th.com
Official Partner of the United States of America World War I Centennial: www.worldwar1centennial.org

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Scarecrow and Mark. I agree that the Air Training Command pin is a more modern one and not a part of her original WASP items. What I'm trying to find out is: would the WASP trainees wear any DUI during training before earning their wings? And if so, which one? Thanks again. Al.

Link to post
Share on other sites

^ No, no DUIs were worn during WASP training.

 

Once again, many thanks for your incredible knowledge and help.

 

Al.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Al,

 

It looks like someone else on here got more WASP items from her estate.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/237929-small-little-wasp-grouping/

 

...Kat

 

Hi Kat

 

Definitely. I know the picker who acquired the group and then sold it to Eric.

 

Wish I had been there first, but we got there late in the day.

 

Thanks, Al

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.