Post Your WWI Collar Disk

[cthomas]

I would like to start a visual reference guide for the WWI era collar disk collector. I think the readily available reference material on these insignia is sparse at best. By 'readily available' I mean not easily accessible on the internet (at least I haven't had much luck!). The only good internet reference I've been able to find is on AGM's website but those are usually removed after being sold. Let's start a guide here so that we all know where to go if we need to ID a piece. If you are having trouble IDing a disk in your collection, even if it's of the type II variety (post WWI), post an image here and I will do my best (as I'm sure others will on this excellent forum) to help you out. It won't be necessary to post an image of the reverse unless it's somewhat unusual (i.e. French or German manufacture).

 

Let me start off with a few from my collection...

 

 

Standard bronze 'T' collar disk with usual threaded post & nut on reverse. Some refer to this as "Ammunition Trains".

[cthomas]

2nd Illinois Reserve Militia. Standard bronze type I disk with unusual fastener...

 

A view of the reverse. Note the Speis Bros Chicago mfg logo.

 

Also note the unusual nut with 'teeth'.

 

Co. I, 2nd Infantry, 19th division. The 19th division never completed training for WWI service. Standard threaded post & nut fastener.

 

50th Artillery Rgt, C.A.C -although trained in France, this regiment did not see combat before Armistice was signed. Bronze disk with standard threaded post & nut.

[atb]

50th Artillery Rgt, C.A.C -although trained in France, this regiment did not see combat before Armistice was signed. Bronze disk with standard threaded post & nut.

 

This disc would be for the 50th Company of the Coast Artillery Corps, not a regiment. The regiments that were put together for overseas service in France for WW1, were provisional and were made up of companies of the Coast Defense Commands of the Coast Artillery Corps. From the WW1 Order of Battle Vol. 3, Part 3 (published by the US Army Center of Military History, "Prior to 1916,numerical designations of coast defense companies was in a single series. Thereafter they were numbered serially within seperate garrisons. Beginning in July 1917, serial and seperate numbering of companies was applied to coast defense commands."

 

A Coast Artillery regiment in France would normally have the regimental number, if it were even shown, below the "US" on the right hand collar disk and the battery letter below crossed cannon on the left one. More often, in my opinion, the brigade number was worn below the "US" disk.

[cthomas]

This disc would be for the 50th Company of the Coast Artillery Corps, not a regiment. The regiments that were put together for overseas service in France for WW1, were provisional and were made up of companies of the Coast Defense Commands of the Coast Artillery Corps. From the WW1 Order of Battle Vol. 3, Part 3 (published by the US Army Center of Military History, "Prior to 1916,numerical designations of coast defense companies was in a single series. Thereafter they were numbered serially within seperate garrisons. Beginning in July 1917, serial and seperate numbering of companies was applied to coast defense commands."

 

A Coast Artillery regiment in France would normally have the regimental number, if it were even shown, below the "US" on the right hand collar disk and the battery letter below crossed cannon on the left one. More often, in my opinion, the brigade number was worn below the "US" disk.

 

 

Thank you for this information. I have learned something new here (and I'm sure it won't be the last time ). I wouldn't mind updating my description but I can't see how...

[tredhed2]

Here's my meager 160th Inf disks. Looking for those still needed.

[Shenkursk]

I would like to start a visual reference guide for the WWI era collar disk collector. I think the readily available reference material on these insignia is sparse at best. By 'readily available' I mean not easily accessible on the internet (at least I haven't had much luck!). The only good internet reference I've been able to find is on AGM's website but those are usually removed after being sold. Let's start a guide here so that we all know where to go if we need to ID a piece. If you are having trouble IDing a disk in your collection, even if it's of the type II variety (post WWI), post an image here and I will do my best (as I'm sure others will on this excellent forum) to help you out. It won't be necessary to post an image of the reverse unless it's somewhat unusual (i.e. French or German manufacture).

 

Thanks for the kind words Charles! We used to get hate mail from people angry that we left all of the items up on the web until the next catalog replaced them. And I do mean HATE mail. People can be downright vicious when they are not actually standing within pistol range of you. Recently I started experimenting with taking the sold stuff off periodically, and the other bunch of folks is now unhappy. HOWEVER.... that is all soon to change:

 

In a couple of months we will have all past item records up and available as an online database with extensive search and organization capability, a photo gallery reference, etc. Currently, that is over 30,000 individual items. In fact, I have a meeting with the web guys this coming Thursday to check on the progress of the project.

 

In the meantime, I will try to get a few of the 339th Infantry discs from my collection photographed to post here.

 

I would suggest that the reverse side is as important, if not sometimes more important than the front. When we got the last collection in of around 700+ discs, you could spot some real trends. For instance, Army Service Corps discs almost always have the smallest of screw posts with a small hex nut - but not absolutely always.

 

A common 'collectorism' of recent years is to pronounce all discs that do not have squared shoulders on the screw post as reproductions, but clearly this is not true. Many of the repro discs do indeed share that feature (no squared shoulders), but it was one of the legitimate manufacturing variations of the period.

 

Another thing about discs that is as amazing as it is annoying is the incredible array of contractors and how they all seemed to miraculously find a screw post and nut that was just slightly different enough in size as to render it unique. Put 500 discs on a table with 500 nuts and a timer - then start matching them up - see how long it takes you to go from being excited about having a big pile of discs to thinking seriously about melting them all down for scrap.

[cthomas]

Thanks for the kind words Charles! We used to get hate mail from people angry that we left all of the items up on the web until the next catalog replaced them. And I do mean HATE mail. People can be downright vicious when they are not actually standing within pistol range of you. Recently I started experimenting with taking the sold stuff off periodically, and the other bunch of folks is now unhappy. HOWEVER.... that is all soon to change:

 

In a couple of months we will have all past item records up and available as an online database with extensive search and organization capability, a photo gallery reference, etc. Currently, that is over 30,000 individual items. In fact, I have a meeting with the web guys this coming Thursday to check on the progress of the project.

 

In the meantime, I will try to get a few of the 339th Infantry discs from my collection photographed to post here.

 

I would suggest that the reverse side is as important, if not sometimes more important than the front. When we got the last collection in of around 700+ discs, you could spot some real trends. For instance, Army Service Corps discs almost always have the smallest of screw posts with a small hex nut - but not absolutely always.

 

A common 'collectorism' of recent years is to pronounce all discs that do not have squared shoulders on the screw post as reproductions, but clearly this is not true. Many of the repro discs do indeed share that feature (no squared shoulders), but it was one of the legitimate manufacturing variations of the period.

 

Another thing about discs that is as amazing as it is annoying is the incredible array of contractors and how they all seemed to miraculously find a screw post and nut that was just slightly different enough in size as to render it unique. Put 500 discs on a table with 500 nuts and a timer - then start matching them up - see how long it takes you to go from being excited about having a big pile of discs to thinking seriously about melting them all down for scrap.

 

You're welcome Jeff. I do enjoy using your site as a reference. Can't wait for the next catalog! I also look forward to that database you mentioned. That will be a perfect resource for the WWI collector is an understatement....

 

I learned something else new today. I didn't know that about screw posts, Jeff. Interesting. Thanks for this little tidbit. Maybe we should post a scan of the reverse...

 

Speaking of posting scans....

 

Guys-

Thanks for posting your disks here. There are some VERY good collections out there! Wow....All I ask is that you ID each one so that we can use it as a reference. That was the main purpose of my post- so that any member can use this thread to help positively ID their disk. And as Jeff said, a picture of the back will probably do some good

 

Jeff-

Before I forget....please let me know what you think of that unusual Cavalry disk with cloth backing. I look forward to your input on that one

 

-Chuck

[kiaiokalewa]

Anti-Aircraft Company B Coast Artillery Corps

[cpatrick]

Pardon my hasty shot.

 

WWI Air Service - from the coat of Chauffeur Charles Coy.

[cthomas]

Pardon my hasty shot.

 

WWI Air Service - from the coat of Chauffeur Charles Coy.

 

 

El Senor Patrick-

When you get the chance, please post a pic of the back to that Air Service disk.

 

John from Hawaii- Same with the AA disk you posted. That's an interesting one.

[cpatrick]

Chuck - Ich spreche kein Spanisch..

 

Not a problem at all. I will do so in the morning. That's about as extravagant as I get. I think I have a couple lettered/numbered discs as well - I need to dig them out.

 

Chris

[cthomas]

cpatrick said:

Chuck - Ich spreche kein Spanisch..

 

Not a problem at all. I will do so in the morning. That's about as extravagant as I get. I think I have a couple lettered/numbered discs as well - I need to dig them out.

 

Chris

 

 

LOL!

 

OK, we'll wait till tomorrow morning. In the mean time, here's one more from my collection.

 

A Signal Corps disk with Air Service wings superimposed.

 

A couple of views of the reverse. There's an old repair job...

[Greg Sebring]

This belonged to Pvt. Albert Summers from the "Lost Battalion"

[Mk1rceme]

Nothing special...just a plain-jane US disc.

 

Wasn't sure if you were looking for disc's other than this kind for this thread.

 

[cthomas]

Nothing special...just a plain-jane US disc.

 

Wasn't sure if you were looking for disc's other than this kind for this thread.

 

 

 

Hey, that works for me. Thanks for posting it here. Please feel free to post more in the future.

 

Greg- Never get tired of seeing that uniform. What a piece of history!

 

-Chuck

[VMI88]

A common 'collectorism' of recent years is to pronounce all discs that do not have squared shoulders on the screw post as reproductions, but clearly this is not true. Many of the repro discs do indeed share that feature (no squared shoulders), but it was one of the legitimate manufacturing variations of the period.

Any other hints on spotting reproduction disks? I've heard they were being made but never seen any details on how to identify them.

 

Bill

[cpatrick]

OK, front and back of the air disc, as requested -

[bayonetman]

This is a belt assembled at Camp Pontanezen in 1919 as a souvenir by my great-uncle, Pvt. Peter George Green, Co. B, 13th Regiment, USMC. Sorry I can't show the back. but I will guarantee all the disks on this belt are pre-August 1919 when he came home. Nothing particularly rare, but nice grouping.

[cthomas]

Heer Patrick-

Thanks for posting those scans. Is it possible to crop out the excess background for a more detailed shot? Hope I'm not being too much of a pain in the arse...

 

There are some AMAZING disks being posted here. I started to drool a little when I saw those pics of the buried treasure being unearthed for the first time in almost 90 years. Some people just have all the fun

 

If you allow me to ID a couple of those disks...

 

The 371st Infantry was part of the 93rd 'Buffalo' division. A rare disk indeed! And that 327th infantry is my favorite-82nd Division!

 

Bayonetman- That's a fascinating belt with all those collar disks on it. I spotted quite a few I would love to own

 

 

I have a question that's been nagging me for a little while....What's the deal on pot metal disks? Were they 'field made'? The few I've seen appear to be of American manufacture/design. I don't see many of them around. A good example is that 535th Infantry disk Teufelhund posted. That one appears to be made from what I call 'pot metal'.

[teufelhund]

Heer Patrick-

Thanks for posting those scans. Is it possible to crop out the excess background for a more detailed shot? Hope I'm not being too much of a pain in the arse...

 

There are some AMAZING disks being posted here. I started to drool a little when I saw those pics of the buried treasure being unearthed for the first time in almost 90 years. Some people just have all the fun

 

If you allow me to ID a couple of those disks...

 

The 371st Infantry was part of the 93rd 'Buffalo' division. A rare disk indeed! And that 327th infantry is my favorite-82nd Division!

 

Bayonetman- That's a fascinating belt with all those collar disks on it. I spotted quite a few I would love to own

I have a question that's been nagging me for a little while....What's the deal on pot metal disks? Were they 'field made'? The few I've seen appear to be of American manufacture/design. I don't see many of them around. A good example is that 535th Infantry disk Teufelhund posted. That one appears to be made from what I call 'pot metal'.

 

 

Hello Chuck,

 

The 371st and 327th discs are coming from the vicinity of PONT à MOUSSON in the Lorraine Region ( Eastern France).

It is amazing to note of how many of these discs were lost in this region of France.

I didn't found them personaly but they are now in my collection as the seller ( who became a friend in the meantime)

had unhearted some more of the same type together with mine.

 

I remember having on a 77th USID delousing station spot somewhere in the Argonne where .............

 

As far as the 535th Inf is concerned, I always welcome any information about this "ghost" unit as I could not find anything in the AEF order of battle or elsewhere concerning same.

 

T

[cthomas]

Hello Chuck,

 

The 371st and 327th discs are coming from the vicinity of PONT à MOUSSON in the Lorraine Region ( Eastern France).

It is amazing to note of how many of these discs were lost in this region of France.

I didn't found them personaly but they are now in my collection as the seller ( who became a friend in the meantime)

had unhearted some more of the same type together with mine.

 

I remember having on a 77th USID delousing station spot somewhere in the Argonne where .............

 

As far as the 535th Inf is concerned, I always welcome any information about this "ghost" unit as I could not find anything in the AEF order of battle or elsewhere concerning same.

 

T

 

 

Yes, I too look forward to hearing about this unit.

 

And by the way Teufelhund- Keep those neat images coming! Simply outstanding!

 

I always joke with myself and say I missed my true calling. I should have been an archaeologist or museum curator.

 

Oh, I'd like to add...

 

Ricardo- Nice tunic!

[cthomas]

'RD18'-

Awesome collection. Thanks for posting them here.

 

Tell me something...where did you get those early pattern Pennsylvania National Guard insignia (third row, far right in first scan)?

[teufelhund]

'RD18'-

Awesome collection. Thanks for posting them here.

 

Tell me something...where did you get those early pattern Pennsylvania National Guard insignia (third row, far right in first scan)?

 

The Penna NG Insigna probably came from the FISMES-FISMETTE sector ( North of Château Thierry)

Am I wrong Cochonou??

[Ricardo]

Ricardo- Nice tunic!

 

Thanks!!

[Baker502]

Here are a few Air Service ones that are either on uniforms or Overseas caps. Enjoy Paul

 

 

 

On 12th Photo Section Uniform

 

On 91st Aero Squadron uniform

 

A few more

On 163rd Aero Uniform

From grouping to 11/2 Air Service Mechanics Co.