cthomas Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I would like to start a visual reference guide for the WWI era collar disk collector. I think the readily available reference material on these insignia is sparse at best. By 'readily available' I mean not easily accessible on the internet (at least I haven't had much luck!). The only good internet reference I've been able to find is on AGM's website but those are usually removed after being sold. Let's start a guide here so that we all know where to go if we need to ID a piece. If you are having trouble IDing a disk in your collection, even if it's of the type II variety (post WWI), post an image here and I will do my best (as I'm sure others will on this excellent forum) to help you out. It won't be necessary to post an image of the reverse unless it's somewhat unusual (i.e. French or German manufacture). Let me start off with a few from my collection... Standard bronze 'T' collar disk with usual threaded post & nut on reverse. Some refer to this as "Ammunition Trains". WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 2nd Illinois Reserve Militia. Standard bronze type I disk with unusual fastener... WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 A view of the reverse. Note the Speis Bros Chicago mfg logo. WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 Also note the unusual nut with 'teeth'. WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 Co. I, 2nd Infantry, 19th division. The 19th division never completed training for WWI service. Standard threaded post & nut fastener. WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 50th Artillery Rgt, C.A.C -although trained in France, this regiment did not see combat before Armistice was signed. Bronze disk with standard threaded post & nut. WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
atb Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 50th Artillery Rgt, C.A.C -although trained in France, this regiment did not see combat before Armistice was signed. Bronze disk with standard threaded post & nut. This disc would be for the 50th Company of the Coast Artillery Corps, not a regiment. The regiments that were put together for overseas service in France for WW1, were provisional and were made up of companies of the Coast Defense Commands of the Coast Artillery Corps. From the WW1 Order of Battle Vol. 3, Part 3 (published by the US Army Center of Military History, "Prior to 1916,numerical designations of coast defense companies was in a single series. Thereafter they were numbered serially within seperate garrisons. Beginning in July 1917, serial and seperate numbering of companies was applied to coast defense commands." A Coast Artillery regiment in France would normally have the regimental number, if it were even shown, below the "US" on the right hand collar disk and the battery letter below crossed cannon on the left one. More often, in my opinion, the brigade number was worn below the "US" disk. Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 This disc would be for the 50th Company of the Coast Artillery Corps, not a regiment. The regiments that were put together for overseas service in France for WW1, were provisional and were made up of companies of the Coast Defense Commands of the Coast Artillery Corps. From the WW1 Order of Battle Vol. 3, Part 3 (published by the US Army Center of Military History, "Prior to 1916,numerical designations of coast defense companies was in a single series. Thereafter they were numbered serially within seperate garrisons. Beginning in July 1917, serial and seperate numbering of companies was applied to coast defense commands." A Coast Artillery regiment in France would normally have the regimental number, if it were even shown, below the "US" on the right hand collar disk and the battery letter below crossed cannon on the left one. More often, in my opinion, the brigade number was worn below the "US" disk. Thank you for this information. I have learned something new here (and I'm sure it won't be the last time ). I wouldn't mind updating my description but I can't see how... WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
tredhed2 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Here's my meager 160th Inf disks. Looking for those still needed. Member, ASMIC.Editor, ASMIC's The Trading PostASMIC Executive VP Link to post Share on other sites
teufelhund Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Hello, Here are some in my collection, several of them are coming right from the Argonne and Saint Mihiel Sector. But I am a real dumy compared to Fenchies like Solcarlus who just need to dig in their back garden. Regards T WOODS NOW U.S MARINE CORPS ENTIRELY, our lines include now the entire Bois de Belleau. Signed, Major Shearer "Skipper" 5Th Marines, 3rd Bat - June 25th 1918 Link to post Share on other sites
Shenkursk Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I would like to start a visual reference guide for the WWI era collar disk collector. I think the readily available reference material on these insignia is sparse at best. By 'readily available' I mean not easily accessible on the internet (at least I haven't had much luck!). The only good internet reference I've been able to find is on AGM's website but those are usually removed after being sold. Let's start a guide here so that we all know where to go if we need to ID a piece. If you are having trouble IDing a disk in your collection, even if it's of the type II variety (post WWI), post an image here and I will do my best (as I'm sure others will on this excellent forum) to help you out. It won't be necessary to post an image of the reverse unless it's somewhat unusual (i.e. French or German manufacture). Thanks for the kind words Charles! We used to get hate mail from people angry that we left all of the items up on the web until the next catalog replaced them. And I do mean HATE mail. People can be downright vicious when they are not actually standing within pistol range of you. Recently I started experimenting with taking the sold stuff off periodically, and the other bunch of folks is now unhappy. HOWEVER.... that is all soon to change: In a couple of months we will have all past item records up and available as an online database with extensive search and organization capability, a photo gallery reference, etc. Currently, that is over 30,000 individual items. In fact, I have a meeting with the web guys this coming Thursday to check on the progress of the project. In the meantime, I will try to get a few of the 339th Infantry discs from my collection photographed to post here. I would suggest that the reverse side is as important, if not sometimes more important than the front. When we got the last collection in of around 700+ discs, you could spot some real trends. For instance, Army Service Corps discs almost always have the smallest of screw posts with a small hex nut - but not absolutely always. A common 'collectorism' of recent years is to pronounce all discs that do not have squared shoulders on the screw post as reproductions, but clearly this is not true. Many of the repro discs do indeed share that feature (no squared shoulders), but it was one of the legitimate manufacturing variations of the period. Another thing about discs that is as amazing as it is annoying is the incredible array of contractors and how they all seemed to miraculously find a screw post and nut that was just slightly different enough in size as to render it unique. Put 500 discs on a table with 500 nuts and a timer - then start matching them up - see how long it takes you to go from being excited about having a big pile of discs to thinking seriously about melting them all down for scrap. Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 Thanks for the kind words Charles! We used to get hate mail from people angry that we left all of the items up on the web until the next catalog replaced them. And I do mean HATE mail. People can be downright vicious when they are not actually standing within pistol range of you. Recently I started experimenting with taking the sold stuff off periodically, and the other bunch of folks is now unhappy. HOWEVER.... that is all soon to change: In a couple of months we will have all past item records up and available as an online database with extensive search and organization capability, a photo gallery reference, etc. Currently, that is over 30,000 individual items. In fact, I have a meeting with the web guys this coming Thursday to check on the progress of the project. In the meantime, I will try to get a few of the 339th Infantry discs from my collection photographed to post here. I would suggest that the reverse side is as important, if not sometimes more important than the front. When we got the last collection in of around 700+ discs, you could spot some real trends. For instance, Army Service Corps discs almost always have the smallest of screw posts with a small hex nut - but not absolutely always. A common 'collectorism' of recent years is to pronounce all discs that do not have squared shoulders on the screw post as reproductions, but clearly this is not true. Many of the repro discs do indeed share that feature (no squared shoulders), but it was one of the legitimate manufacturing variations of the period. Another thing about discs that is as amazing as it is annoying is the incredible array of contractors and how they all seemed to miraculously find a screw post and nut that was just slightly different enough in size as to render it unique. Put 500 discs on a table with 500 nuts and a timer - then start matching them up - see how long it takes you to go from being excited about having a big pile of discs to thinking seriously about melting them all down for scrap. You're welcome Jeff. I do enjoy using your site as a reference. Can't wait for the next catalog! I also look forward to that database you mentioned. That will be a perfect resource for the WWI collector is an understatement.... I learned something else new today. I didn't know that about screw posts, Jeff. Interesting. Thanks for this little tidbit. Maybe we should post a scan of the reverse... Speaking of posting scans.... Guys- Thanks for posting your disks here. There are some VERY good collections out there! Wow....All I ask is that you ID each one so that we can use it as a reference. That was the main purpose of my post- so that any member can use this thread to help positively ID their disk. And as Jeff said, a picture of the back will probably do some good Jeff- Before I forget....please let me know what you think of that unusual Cavalry disk with cloth backing. I look forward to your input on that one -Chuck WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
kiaiokalewa Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Anti-Aircraft Company B Coast Artillery Corps Link to post Share on other sites
cpatrick Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Pardon my hasty shot. WWI Air Service - from the coat of Chauffeur Charles Coy. Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 Pardon my hasty shot. WWI Air Service - from the coat of Chauffeur Charles Coy. El Senor Patrick- When you get the chance, please post a pic of the back to that Air Service disk. John from Hawaii- Same with the AA disk you posted. That's an interesting one. WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
cpatrick Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Chuck - Ich spreche kein Spanisch.. Not a problem at all. I will do so in the morning. That's about as extravagant as I get. I think I have a couple lettered/numbered discs as well - I need to dig them out. Chris Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 Chuck - Ich spreche kein Spanisch.. Not a problem at all. I will do so in the morning. That's about as extravagant as I get. I think I have a couple lettered/numbered discs as well - I need to dig them out. Chris LOL! OK, we'll wait till tomorrow morning. In the mean time, here's one more from my collection. A Signal Corps disk with Air Service wings superimposed. WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 A couple of views of the reverse. There's an old repair job... WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
Greg Sebring Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 This belonged to Pvt. Albert Summers from the "Lost Battalion" My collection is strictly what my dad brought back from the ETO.Sgt. Mahlon E. Sebring, 82nd Airborne, 319th Glider Field Artillery, A Battery - Normandy, Holland, The Bulge, and Germany... finishing with occupation duty in Berlinhttp://ww2-airborne....ts/319/319.html Link to post Share on other sites
Mk1rceme Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Nothing special...just a plain-jane US disc. Wasn't sure if you were looking for disc's other than this kind for this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
cthomas Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 Nothing special...just a plain-jane US disc. Wasn't sure if you were looking for disc's other than this kind for this thread. Hey, that works for me. Thanks for posting it here. Please feel free to post more in the future. Greg- Never get tired of seeing that uniform. What a piece of history! -Chuck WANTED! WWI Aero Squadron items such as insignia, uniforms & my favorite- PHOTOS! Will purchase or work out a possible tradeHIGHLY SOUGHT- Anything related to the AEF Photo Sections or 85th,258th & 278th Aero Squadrons.To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man-Cecil Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
VMI88 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 A common 'collectorism' of recent years is to pronounce all discs that do not have squared shoulders on the screw post as reproductions, but clearly this is not true. Many of the repro discs do indeed share that feature (no squared shoulders), but it was one of the legitimate manufacturing variations of the period. Any other hints on spotting reproduction disks? I've heard they were being made but never seen any details on how to identify them. Bill Looking for older Virginia Military Institute items: insignia, uniforms, cadet sabers, documents, and groupings belonging to VMI alumni.Also interested in Virginia Reserve Militia (VRM) uniforms and insignia, or other items of general Virginia interest. Link to post Share on other sites
cpatrick Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 OK, front and back of the air disc, as requested - Link to post Share on other sites
teufelhund Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Some CDs found Over here, but unfortunately not by me Camp Pontanezen Brittany, France T WOODS NOW U.S MARINE CORPS ENTIRELY, our lines include now the entire Bois de Belleau. Signed, Major Shearer "Skipper" 5Th Marines, 3rd Bat - June 25th 1918 Link to post Share on other sites
bayonetman Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 This is a belt assembled at Camp Pontanezen in 1919 as a souvenir by my great-uncle, Pvt. Peter George Green, Co. B, 13th Regiment, USMC. Sorry I can't show the back. but I will guarantee all the disks on this belt are pre-August 1919 when he came home. Nothing particularly rare, but nice grouping. Gary Cunningham - Bayonetman PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER, SADLY, HAS PASSED AWAY Please click here to read the tributes to Gary: Link to post Share on other sites
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