Original M3 Flak Helmet with Swastikas?

[LikeOldStuff]

Hi, I’m new to the forum and have a WWII M3 flak helmet that I’m trying to research. I bought it in 1963 (yes, almost 50 years ago!) at Whitey’s Army & Navy Store in Berea, Ohio. I think it was under $5. At the time I was really young and thought it was neat looking. It didn’t occur to me that the swastika decals were not right for the U.S. helmet. Later I realized they couldn’t be right, but never got around to digging into who put them on or why.

 

I was researching some of the older items that I’ve had forever and came across this site and amazingly, a thread that dealt with a similarly marked M3 flak helmet. It’s an old thread from 2008, so I thought I’d reopen the topic and see if anyone had any more insight into the oddly decaled M3 helmet.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=31099

 

 

 

[History Man]

welcome to the forum. as said in the other topic the decals do not belong on the helmet. meaning that they were added for either an easier sell or for a movie/tv show. still a nice M3.

 

Philip

[swmdo]

Could it mean the gunner shot down a nazi aircraft? :think:

[History Man]

i dont think so, as there were stacks of these in surplus stores and it was not likely a gunner did that. as i said before probably added for show, movie, or an easier sell.

 

it is still a very nice M3 and if you ever decide to part with it

 

Philip

[boxerdogi]

I've always heard these were made this way for a movie.....although I've never seen the movie....Tom.

[Bob Hudson]

I've always heard these were made this way for a movie.....although I've never seen the movie....Tom.

 

Sounds probable: these do have a shape similar to German helmets and with the decals they'd work in some movie scenes.

[History Man]

probably the early films when it wasnt surprising to see US planes drop bombs posing as the Japanese and german bombers. and i have seen some shows when the germans were using US shaped helmets.

 

Philip

[LarryM3]

These flak helmets with the swastika stickers have been around since I started collecting over 30 years ago. Back then it was thought that the stickers were USAAF stickers for use on an aircraft fuselage to denote a kill and that gunners used them to show their kills. That's pretty much been shown to be a load of crap, I have never seen a photo of an aircraft with these type kill markings and I have never talked to or seen photos of WWII air gunners using these. The next story was the movie scenario but i have seen the helmets with stickers on the ear-flaps, on the front, in fact in all conceivable spots which doesn't make a lot of sense for a movie, plus the fact that I have never seen a war movies where anyone wore anything like these. I have no idea where they originated or why but I sure wish somebody could solve this mystery before I head off to the big helmet warehouse in the sky.

 

Larry

[vette]

I have one of those. The decals are half there or half gone. They are in the same place. So far no one is sure where they had derived from. My decals looks older than the helmet. They are a mistery. Same as you Larry, I would love to know for sure. Bill

[vette]

To reopen this thread with a documented picture that Manions has on auction showing a period helmet with the swas and oxygen mask and goggles. I could not get a copy but will try. They are trying to sell the helmet with this documented picture. Check it out. Bill

[Bob Hudson]

To reopen this thread with a documented picture that Manions has on auction showing a period helmet with the swas and oxygen mask and goggles. I could not get a copy but will try. They are trying to sell the helmet with this documented picture. Check it out. Bill

 

It's located at https://www.manions.com/bid/bid.aspx~itemid~6105893~pic~8480 and bidding is up to $266. They say

 

"Similar to the M1 helmet, this M3 flak helmet has circular hinged earflaps w/ swastika decals. The helmet has a smooth flock finish to prevent static electricity & prevent skin sticking to the surface at freezing temperatures. The web lining is similar to the lining of the M1 helmet liner. This example has no earphone hardware. According to some sources, only 210,000 of these helmets were produced! The consigner has no explanation for why the swastikas were added to the earflaps. Interestingly, the lot includes a color copy of a page from the French magazine Militaria showing a M3 w/ similar swastika decals, also without explanation. "

 

 

[Sabrejet]

Could the Luftwaffe have issued captured examples to their aircrews?! :think:

[vette]

Could the Luftwaffe have issued captured examples to their aircrews?! :think:

[/quote I had heard that before the same as I have heard they were used for movies. So far no documentation has surfaced in any movies. Also if surplus stores used them to enhance the sales of these helmets why aren't there any surplus decals floating around? They definately do not look like any swastika's used by the Germans. Possibly a mission decal for U.S. fighters or a kill decal. I will keep mine until more substantial information comes out on these. I would like to know what book that picture was taken from. Bill

[LarryM3]

The Militaria Magazine article featured one of these flak helmets with the swastikas but they weren't stating it was wartime use. I have seen these flak helmets with the stickers on the earpieces and on the front, always flak helmets, never any other type helmets. Beast had a thread on here in 'Ephemera & Photographs' called 'WWII OPFOR, Helmets, etc.' in Oct. 2007 which featured some photos from LIFE magazine which showed US OPFOR troops wearing helmet liners with these type stickers, wondering if maybe they thought about using M-3 Flak helmets and made up a bunch with these stickers on them but then dropped the idea. Just guessing.

 

Larry

[vette]

The Militaria Magazine article featured one of these flak helmets with the swastikas but they weren't stating it was wartime use. I have seen these flak helmets with the stickers on the earpieces and on the front, always flak helmets, never any other type helmets. Beast had a thread on here in 'Ephemera & Photographs' called 'WWII OPFOR, Helmets, etc.' in Oct. 2007 which featured some photos from LIFE magazine which showed US OPFOR troops wearing helmet liners with these type stickers, wondering if maybe they thought about using M-3 Flak helmets and made up a bunch with these stickers on them but then dropped the idea. Just guessing.

 

Larry

I asked an old friend that is 84 years old. He has never seen these decals before. I am thinking that I had purchased mine from him 15 years ago. Maybe more information will come out more about this subject? I will keep mine with the decals. Bill

[vette]

You know. Every once in a while I keep stumbling upon this conversation. I guess I will add that every one of these helmets with the decals, they all are placed on the ear piece with the swas arm straight up at twelve o clock . They all must have been put on by the same person or company and with instructions. Just another thought on these. Hope all is well?

[LikeOldStuff]

Well, nine years later, I still have the oddly marked M3 flak helmet and its history is still a mystery.

[Jennings Lane]

I enjoyed reading the thread. For what it's worth, here's another example. I bought it today from an estate in Louisville, Kentucky.

[iron bender]

Is there a chance these were enhanced as a sales ploy through a kids magazine, firearms magazine, etc? Reading the first thread the op's helmet was purchased in 1963, when these were surplus and next to free. Just a thought

[manayunkman]

19 minutes ago, iron bender said:

Is there a chance these were enhanced as a sales ploy through a kids magazine, firearms magazine, etc? Reading the first thread the op's helmet was purchased in 1963, when these were surplus and next to free. Just a thought

And German helmets were a few bucks so maybe adding a swas would sell it.

[manayunkman]

On 6/22/2012 at 9:48 AM, Bob Hudson said:

 

It's located at https://www.manions.com/bid/bid.aspx~itemid~6105893~pic~8480 and bidding is up to $266. They say

 

"Similar to the M1 helmet, this M3 flak helmet has circular hinged earflaps w/ swastika decals. The helmet has a smooth flock finish to prevent static electricity & prevent skin sticking to the surface at freezing temperatures. The web lining is similar to the lining of the M1 helmet liner. This example has no earphone hardware. According to some sources, only 210,000 of these helmets were produced! The consigner has no explanation for why the swastikas were added to the earflaps. Interestingly, the lot includes a color copy of a page from the French magazine Militaria showing a M3 w/ similar swastika decals, also without explanation. "

 

 

I don’t see the period photo.

[ottodog8]

I thought we dealt with this somewhere on the Forum. There is no mystery. When I was a kid in the 1960s, surplus stores had stacks of these in brand new, unissued condition. I had one, somewhere I might still have the original instruction pamphlet that came tucked inside the liner. 

 

The helmets were not big sellers, I think they were around $3 each. Some bright dealer got the idea to put these decals on them to make them more saleable. I remember seeing the stacks without, and then with, the decals. It's as simple as that. Definitely postwar, dealer applied. End of story.