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Anyone have an Army SP/7 uniform shirt or jacket to show off?


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#1 Martinjmpr

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 11:21 AM

Just curious if anyone has a shirt or jacket with a bonafide SP/7 rank insignia on it?  Reason I ask is that I had to search and search and search on the internet before I could find even ONE period photo of a SP/7 in uniform, somewhere in Vietnam. 

 

So how about it?  Anyone have one?  Seems to me it would be a real "unicorn" of a find, just because as near as I can tell, SP/7 was such a rare rank. 



#2 gwb123

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 08:11 PM

See post #19

 

http://www.usmilitar...60s-thru-1980s/



#3 Martinjmpr

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 12:09 PM

 

Yes, that is literally the only picture I could find of an actual SP/7 in uniform.  In fact, I think that may be how I found this forum!

 

That's why I'm wondering if anybody here  has a bonafide SP/7 fatigue shirt, jungle jacket, khaki shirt or class-A jacket with a SP/7 rank to show off, something that can be pretty much verified as genuine ( I say genuine because of course it would be easy for almost anyone to buy a SP/7 repro rank insignia and just sew it onto an old uniform.) 



#4 seanmc1114

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:51 AM

Specialist 7 John Christel in 1975. The link where this photo was posted indicates this picture was taken for his application to become a warrant officer. It appears his career was in the Military Police as a criminal investigator.

 

https://www.fold3.co...ohn_a_christel/

 

Attached Images

  • Specialist 7.jpeg


#5 atb

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 06:44 PM

I used to have an Army Green (AG-44) service coat and overcoat with SP7 chevrons. They had belonged to a soldier assigned to the Pentagon in the early to mid-1960's.



#6 patches

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 10:21 AM

Specialist 7 John Christel in 1975. The link where this photo was posted indicates this picture was taken for his application to become a warrant officer. It appears his career was in the Military Police as a criminal investigator.

 

https://www.fold3.co...ohn_a_christel/

 

Yes that was a common MOS for a Spec7, got an Army Info Digest from the early 60s, like 1962 or 63, it's been awhile since I looked at it but I recall it has an artical on a Spec7 holding this or a very similar MOS within the MP Corps. Also states that at that time there were no more than seven guys holding this rank Army Wide. Will have to find issue, to scan.



#7 patches

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 10:59 AM

Yes that was a common MOS for a Spec7, got an Army Info Digest from the early 60s, like 1962 or 63, it's been awhile since I looked at it but I recall it has an artical on a Spec7 holding this or a very similar MOS within the MP Corps. Also states that at that time there were no more than seven guys holding this rank Army Wide. Will have to find issue, to scan.

Found the artical, but it's not the one I was thinking of, there must be another one that talks about a Spec7. Will scan artical any way tonight, plus another one of a AID cover in the RANKS forum. I am officialy stumped on which issue that other Spec7 artical is :wacko:.



#8 Martinjmpr

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 11:09 AM

Makes perfect sense to me that a CID investigator would hold a SP/7 rank. After all, that job has no need to "push troops" or act as a PSG, most of the time he is probably working alone and in civilian clothing.

And that makes exactly TWO bonafide photos of a SP/7 that I've seen.

SP/6 was a very common rank when I first went in in 1980. In fact, in food service or medical branches, it was hard to find a "hard striper" at all. IIRC the way it worked was like this: If you had a medical section, the Platoon Sergeant or Section Leader might be a "hard stripe" E-6, i.e. a Staff Sergeant. But his job was mostly making duty rosters, overseeing training and making sure that the troops were doing their jobs.

The troops with technical jobs, though, the cooks, the medical techs, mechanics, etc, were almost always Specialists whether they were SP/4, SP/5 or SP/6.

In terms of authority, though, SP/5s and SP/6's were still considered to be NCOs while SP/4s were not. The rule was that a "hard striper" outranked a specialist of the same grade, but not of a higher grade, regardless of Date of Rank.

So a corporal outranked a SP/4, but a SP/5 outranked a corporal. A SGT (E-5) outranked a SP/5 but a SP/6 outranked a SGT, and so on.

I believe that in the original concept of the Specialist rank, any NCO would outrank any Specialist, but it didn't take long for the Army to realize that having a 2-years-in-service Corporal barking orders to a 12-years-in-service SP/6 wasn't going to work for anyone, so they adopted the system that endures even up to today where there actually are a few hard-stripe corporals out there (typically they are found in combat arms units) who by regulation outrank any SPC (the current abbreviation for SP/4) regardless of DOR.

One final observation: The switch from SP/5 to SGT and SP/6 to SSG was final by 1985 but in my experience this was a gradual thing that started years before. I don't recall ever seeing a SP/6 after about 1983. I'm sure there were some around, but I never saw them. By the time I got to Germany in 1987, SP/4 was the only specialist rank left. I was promoted to SP/4 in March of 1988 and it was later that year that our Orderly Room posted a memo that from that point on the abbreviation for the rank would change from SP/4 to SPC.

Edited by Martinjmpr, 18 December 2015 - 11:13 AM.


#9 patches

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 08:38 PM

And here's said article on one Specialist 7th Class William H. Schnakenberg. Now there's another article in one of my early 60s AIDs that talks again with a Spec7 MP guy, here there's a photo IIRC of the subject in long sleeve khaki shirt where the ranks are seen, don't know what issue it's in now :o.

 

                                                       rsz_1scan.jpg



#10 seanmc1114

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Posted 19 December 2015 - 01:14 PM

Although these files are fairly small and not too clear, these are all photos of Specialist 7 Oswald Kinat of the 2nd Civil Affairs Company in Vietnam. He is wearing pinon insignia but it's not clear if it's U.S. made or theater made.

Attached Images

  • SP7 Oswald 'Ozzie' Kinat.2nd CA Company.1.JPG
  • SP7 Oswald 'Ozzie' Kinat.2nd CA Company.2.JPG
  • SP7 Oswald 'Ozzie' Kinat.2nd CA Company.3.JPG

Edited by seanmc1114, 19 December 2015 - 01:14 PM.


#11 seanmc1114

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:38 AM

As an aside, here's an online article I just ran across that advocates bringing back the senior specialist ranks. It's a good read.

 

http://taskandpurpos...ecialist-ranks/



#12 patches

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 07:52 PM

Spec 7.jpg

Here's one, in a Medical unit, foto from the Vietnam Nurses Uniform topic.



#13 seanmc1114

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 05:28 AM

SP7 Bill England of Southern Command Network, the armed forces network in Panama, around 1970-1971.

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  • Specialist 7.1.jpg
  • Specialist 7.2.jpg


#14 ItemCo16527

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 02:25 PM

Specialist 7 John Christel in 1975. The link where this photo was posted indicates this picture was taken for his application to become a warrant officer. It appears his career was in the Military Police as a criminal investigator.

 

https://www.fold3.co...ohn_a_christel/

 

 

That's my uncle John. :) He eventually wound up retiring as a CW2 in 1982.



#15 patches

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:08 PM

 

That's my uncle John. :) He eventually wound up retiring as a CW2 in 1982.

What a small world :D.

 

Also very typical, loads of senior NCO and as we now see senior Specialists went into WO grades late in their careers.



#16 ItemCo16527

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:10 AM

It really is a small world. Imagine my surprise when I stumbled on this thread and saw my uncle  :lol:

 

For those interested, attached is a picture of the insignia he's wearing in the above photo. I should note that the SP7 rank was eliminated around 1976 or so, and thereafter he was a Sergeant First Class until he was appointed a WO1 in 1977.

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  • 100_5337.JPG


#17 patches

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 06:08 PM

Here's a uniform, this one was posted by member Sabrejet back in 2009.

 

A 1950s OG Sateen with Burst of Glory Black painted Tack Buttons. A Two CIB recipient and 25th Div vet currently servicing in a unit assigned to Continental Army Command (CONARC) circa 1960-66. That 2nd Award could very well be for a WWII, Korea vet rather than a Korea Vietnam vet.

 

post-8022-1257536427.jpg

 

post-8022-1257536635.jpg post-8022-1257536603.jpg



#18 patches

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:13 PM

rsz_spec7.jpg



#19 seanmc1114

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 07:25 AM

Screenshot from a 1950s "THe Big Picture" film about training Army salvage divers. This SP7 was an instructor. Note he's wearing the old style insignia from the 50s.

Attached Images

  • Specialist 7.Diver.jpg


#20 BowlofRice

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:03 AM

spec7hbt.JPG

 

I picked up this SP7 HBT shirt (size 40R) at Show of Shows. It has the Ryukyus Command SSI, but there's evidence of a 1st Cavalry patch being there before that.



#21 patches

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:52 AM

Great shirt there Rice! Thanks for posting it.



#22 seanmc1114

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:33 AM

Here's another one but I don't know anything about this soldier's MOS, etc. It's hard to make out, but his branch insignia may be Military Intelligence.

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  • Specialist 7.3.jpg


#23 seanmc1114

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 09:24 AM

Specialist 7 of the Army Reserve's 294th Engineer Detachment (Diving), a demolition and salvage unit, around 1966.

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  • Specialist 7.Diver.294th Engineer Detachment.jpg


#24 seanmc1114

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:56 AM

Specialists 5, 6 and 7 as students at the Second Army Area Intelligence School at Fort Meade, Maryland from the November 1963 Army Reserve magazine. Note the two different styles of chevrons being worn by the Specialist 7s on the left. And the soldier behind the office on the right side looks like he has a Specialist 5 chevron on his right sleeve and a Specialist 6 chevron on his left.

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  • Specialist 7.4.jpg


#25 seanmc1114

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:38 AM

This Specialist 7 was involved in sleep deprivation testing. The picture appeared in the June 1964 issue of Army Information Digest.

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  • Specialist 7.Sleep Deprivation.jpg



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