Jump to content

Anyone have an Army SP/7 uniform shirt or jacket to show off?


Recommended Posts

Just curious if anyone has a shirt or jacket with a bonafide SP/7 rank insignia on it? Reason I ask is that I had to search and search and search on the internet before I could find even ONE period photo of a SP/7 in uniform, somewhere in Vietnam.

 

So how about it? Anyone have one? Seems to me it would be a real "unicorn" of a find, just because as near as I can tell, SP/7 was such a rare rank.

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yes, that is literally the only picture I could find of an actual SP/7 in uniform. In fact, I think that may be how I found this forum!

 

That's why I'm wondering if anybody here has a bonafide SP/7 fatigue shirt, jungle jacket, khaki shirt or class-A jacket with a SP/7 rank to show off, something that can be pretty much verified as genuine ( I say genuine because of course it would be easy for almost anyone to buy a SP/7 repro rank insignia and just sew it onto an old uniform.)

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

Link to post
Share on other sites

Specialist 7 John Christel in 1975. The link where this photo was posted indicates this picture was taken for his application to become a warrant officer. It appears his career was in the Military Police as a criminal investigator.

 

https://www.fold3.com/page/14701574_john_a_christel/

 

Yes that was a common MOS for a Spec7, got an Army Info Digest from the early 60s, like 1962 or 63, it's been awhile since I looked at it but I recall it has an artical on a Spec7 holding this or a very similar MOS within the MP Corps. Also states that at that time there were no more than seven guys holding this rank Army Wide. Will have to find issue, to scan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes that was a common MOS for a Spec7, got an Army Info Digest from the early 60s, like 1962 or 63, it's been awhile since I looked at it but I recall it has an artical on a Spec7 holding this or a very similar MOS within the MP Corps. Also states that at that time there were no more than seven guys holding this rank Army Wide. Will have to find issue, to scan.

Found the artical, but it's not the one I was thinking of, there must be another one that talks about a Spec7. Will scan artical any way tonight, plus another one of a AID cover in the RANKS forum. I am officialy stumped on which issue that other Spec7 artical is :wacko:.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes perfect sense to me that a CID investigator would hold a SP/7 rank. After all, that job has no need to "push troops" or act as a PSG, most of the time he is probably working alone and in civilian clothing.

 

And that makes exactly TWO bonafide photos of a SP/7 that I've seen.

 

SP/6 was a very common rank when I first went in in 1980. In fact, in food service or medical branches, it was hard to find a "hard striper" at all. IIRC the way it worked was like this: If you had a medical section, the Platoon Sergeant or Section Leader might be a "hard stripe" E-6, i.e. a Staff Sergeant. But his job was mostly making duty rosters, overseeing training and making sure that the troops were doing their jobs.

 

The troops with technical jobs, though, the cooks, the medical techs, mechanics, etc, were almost always Specialists whether they were SP/4, SP/5 or SP/6.

 

In terms of authority, though, SP/5s and SP/6's were still considered to be NCOs while SP/4s were not. The rule was that a "hard striper" outranked a specialist of the same grade, but not of a higher grade, regardless of Date of Rank.

 

So a corporal outranked a SP/4, but a SP/5 outranked a corporal. A SGT (E-5) outranked a SP/5 but a SP/6 outranked a SGT, and so on.

 

I believe that in the original concept of the Specialist rank, any NCO would outrank any Specialist, but it didn't take long for the Army to realize that having a 2-years-in-service Corporal barking orders to a 12-years-in-service SP/6 wasn't going to work for anyone, so they adopted the system that endures even up to today where there actually are a few hard-stripe corporals out there (typically they are found in combat arms units) who by regulation outrank any SPC (the current abbreviation for SP/4) regardless of DOR.

 

One final observation: The switch from SP/5 to SGT and SP/6 to SSG was final by 1985 but in my experience this was a gradual thing that started years before. I don't recall ever seeing a SP/6 after about 1983. I'm sure there were some around, but I never saw them. By the time I got to Germany in 1987, SP/4 was the only specialist rank left. I was promoted to SP/4 in March of 1988 and it was later that year that our Orderly Room posted a memo that from that point on the abbreviation for the rank would change from SP/4 to SPC.

Martin

Englewood, CO

US Army 1980-2005

Link to post
Share on other sites

And here's said article on one Specialist 7th Class William H. Schnakenberg. Now there's another article in one of my early 60s AIDs that talks again with a Spec7 MP guy, here there's a photo IIRC of the subject in long sleeve khaki shirt where the ranks are seen, don't know what issue it's in now :o.

 

post-34986-0-05277700-1450499879.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although these files are fairly small and not too clear, these are all photos of Specialist 7 Oswald Kinat of the 2nd Civil Affairs Company in Vietnam. He is wearing pinon insignia but it's not clear if it's U.S. made or theater made.

post-1761-0-08395600-1450559631.jpg

post-1761-0-79153100-1450559631.jpg

post-1761-0-37812100-1450559632.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Specialist 7 John Christel in 1975. The link where this photo was posted indicates this picture was taken for his application to become a warrant officer. It appears his career was in the Military Police as a criminal investigator.

 

https://www.fold3.com/page/14701574_john_a_christel/

 

 

That's my uncle John. :) He eventually wound up retiring as a CW2 in 1982.

Jeff C.

donation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gif

donation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's my uncle John. :) He eventually wound up retiring as a CW2 in 1982.

What a small world :D.

 

Also very typical, loads of senior NCO and as we now see senior Specialists went into WO grades late in their careers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It really is a small world. Imagine my surprise when I stumbled on this thread and saw my uncle :lol:

 

For those interested, attached is a picture of the insignia he's wearing in the above photo. I should note that the SP7 rank was eliminated around 1976 or so, and thereafter he was a Sergeant First Class until he was appointed a WO1 in 1977.

post-2275-0-42103600-1470330641.jpg

Jeff C.

donation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gif

donation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a uniform, this one was posted by member Sabrejet back in 2009.

 

A 1950s OG Sateen with Burst of Glory Black painted Tack Buttons. A Two CIB recipient and 25th Div vet currently servicing in a unit assigned to Continental Army Command (CONARC) circa 1960-66. That 2nd Award could very well be for a WWII, Korea vet rather than a Korea Vietnam vet.

 

post-34986-0-52866900-1470967493.jpg

 

post-34986-0-76406200-1470967507.jpgpost-34986-0-37318800-1470967519.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

post-105136-0-29260000-1489942922_thumb.jpg

 

I picked up this SP7 HBT shirt (size 40R) at Show of Shows. It has the Ryukyus Command SSI, but there's evidence of a 1st Cavalry patch being there before that.

Postwar uniforms are sharp as hell, but once you don't want 'em, they're hard to sell.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Specialists 5, 6 and 7 as students at the Second Army Area Intelligence School at Fort Meade, Maryland from the November 1963 Army Reserve magazine. Note the two different styles of chevrons being worn by the Specialist 7s on the left. And the soldier behind the office on the right side looks like he has a Specialist 5 chevron on his right sleeve and a Specialist 6 chevron on his left.

post-1761-0-31323200-1508349374_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.