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US Space Force…SPACE Force…this isn’t a joke


Noelle
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When my daughter and I went on a road trip last month that ended up being a few weeks instead of nine days (that wasn’t for any fun reason), we ended up going by these signs that said “Vandenberg SFB,” and I kept wondering KFC that was.  ABF, sure. Perhaps I misread the sign in passing.  Then I saw it again, and okay, SFB.  After a while, I decided to take a bypass or…something…I can’t remember now, since I ended at an intersection, looked left, and…

 

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Envision Bugs Bunny when he asked that little blond boy his name, and was told “Hansel.”  (Anyone else here remember old Bugs?)

 

I had to pull in to see if this really was, and there was a visitor center!  By now I was amused because, while I heard about this supposedly being a thing and no one knowing what the actual hell the SPACE FORCE was to protect us against (martians?), I had no idea they’d followed through on this.  You can get bumper stickers and such for other branches, so I wanted to see if there was something here.  Only…

 

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You have to be military to go into the visitor center, and there’s a sign that there’s no gift shop.  Boo.

 

So we left.

 

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I started thinking about what it must be like for someone in that branch to be asked what branch of the military, and for them to have to say, “Space Force.”  Honestly, it feels like a joke was being made out of the military here.  Space Force.  Thankfully (or perhaps this is frustrating to those in charge of it), the Space Force is part of the Air Force.  In fact, this was was the Vandenberg Air Force Base until being renamed Vandenberg Space Force Base.  So someone can always give that as an answer, that they’re part of the Air Force stationed at Vandenberg.  I really do feel for those who enlisted in the Air Force expecting to be able to proudly say that they’re in the Air Force, only to get assigned to something that honestly, truly feels like a mockery’s being made of the military, with resources being reallocated.

 

But now I’m wondering where stuff about the Space Force (sorry, but I can’t even type that with a straight face) would even go in this forum.  At some point, stuff will pop up that people will collect.

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Creating the Space force has been in the works for years, long before Trump and Obama were in office.  Our country has a massive space presence which was subdivided into the many depts, branches, agencies only a bureaucracy like ours could offer.  Imagine each user having a territorial pissing match over sharing of equipment and assets.  We are talking assets owned by the Navy, Army, USMC, Air Force, NSA, CIA, DIA, and of course agencies that were once not known by anyone such as the NRO.  This move to the Space force was to concentrate our efforts under one dept vs spread out along many.  Most of our future enemies are ramping up militarization of space assets that would over come our ability to fight wars or even function as a society.  Everything from threatening our sats, to being able overcome our radar tech, to removing communication, to removing our navigation abilities, to even being able to conduct electronic warfare operations.  Russia and China alone have increase space modernization by 200% from 2015 to 2018 alone.

 

I think a lot of negative press came from the fact that Trump signed it into office, and everything he did was highly criticized.  The news made it seem like Trump wanted armed space marines doing door breaches on enemy space stations.  Anyways, an important move that will get a lot of flak from decades to come.  

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There are several good articles out there written by several high-ranking retired officers that highlight the problems of Space Force as a military branch. Many argue that Space Force will never truly be accepted by the rest of the military, with the chief reason being that they have never been tested in direct combat. The Space Force seems to be struggling with this fact, as they felt the need to specifically call themselves "warfighters" in their hymn, despite the fact that they are unlikely to ever engage in direct combat as a service (understanding that individuals may if attached to another branch). Given their lack of actual warfighting experience, it comes across as hokey at best.

 

They need to buckle up, because the Air Force is going to treat them with as much disdain as the Navy does the Marine Corps...if not more. The Navy has had centuries to cope with the fact they have to put up with a nuisance step child...the Air Force is still absorbing the gut punch.

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2 hours ago, Woodymyster said:

Creating the Space force has been in the works for years, long before Trump and Obama were in office.  Our country has a massive space presence which was subdivided into the many depts, branches, agencies only a bureaucracy like ours could offer.  Imagine each user having a territorial pissing match over sharing of equipment and assets.  We are talking assets owned by the Navy, Army, USMC, Air Force, NSA, CIA, DIA, and of course agencies that were once not known by anyone such as the NRO.  This move to the Space force was to concentrate our efforts under one dept vs spread out along many.  Most of our future enemies are ramping up militarization of space assets that would over come our ability to fight wars or even function as a society.  Everything from threatening our sats, to being able overcome our radar tech, to removing communication, to removing our navigation abilities, to even being able to conduct electronic warfare operations.  Russia and China alone have increase space modernization by 200% from 2015 to 2018 alone.

 

I think a lot of negative press came from the fact that Trump signed it into office, and everything he did was highly criticized.  The news made it seem like Trump wanted armed space marines doing door breaches on enemy space stations.  Anyways, an important move that will get a lot of flak from decades to come.  

 

I didn’t want to mention politicians, but I think it would have been laughed at no matter who signed it into effect.  I actually didn’t know it really even had been signed, which is why SFB didn’t even click as SPACE Force.  I thought the idea had been dropped.  

 

I admit to being extremely amused at this idea of being out there waiting to fight off Marvin leading the martian invasion, amused enough that I was almost grateful for it to existing because I REALLY needed a laugh that day, so very badly needed a laugh.  But I don’t think the people of this country have sold on this when there was no real attempt made to get the public on board with this new branch of the military we’ll be funding, and when we can’t be sold on the idea, who will really take it seriously?  It reflects on the entire military.  If you want people to voluntarily enlist, you’ve got to make sure people take it seriously.  This just isn’t it.

 

If this was really intended to roll several organizations into one, then it needed to be blamed something that won’t be taken a joke.

 

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2 hours ago, Brig said:

There are several good articles out there written by several high-ranking retired officers that highlight the problems of Space Force as a military branch. Many argue that Space Force will never truly be accepted by the rest of the military, with the chief reason being that they have never been tested in direct combat. The Space Force seems to be struggling with this fact, as they felt the need to specifically call themselves "warfighters" in their hymn, despite the fact that they are unlikely to ever engage in direct combat as a service (understanding that individuals may if attached to another branch). Given their lack of actual warfighting experience, it comes across as hokey at best.

 

They need to buckle up, because the Air Force is going to treat them with as much disdain as the Navy does the Marine Corps...if not more. The Navy has had centuries to cope with the fact they have to put up with a nuisance step child...the Air Force is still absorbing the gut punch.

 

I really feel bad for the people who are a part of the Space Force.  I don’t see how they’ll ever, EVER be taken seriously.  They’re every called Guardians.  Guardians of the Galaxy.  It’s like something out of a movie about invading martians or something.  The insignia looks like it’s a spin off of Star Trek and the Avengers.

 

If, as Woodymyster said, this is a needed and import and branch meant to roll in things like assets currently owned by the CIA, NSA, etc., then the name of the branch and what they’re called should have been given names that aren’t asking to be the butt end of jokes.  Given these names, it just doesn’t seem like even those in charge take it seriously.  How can we?  

 

It sounds like the Space Force is where people who are rejected from other branches can go, which doesn’t help matters.  Nor does it help matters that there are claims that the Space Force has been involved in every combat since Vietnam when it hasn’t even existed long enough to have 20k members, and well over 80% of those were assigned rather than being direct enlistments who wanted to be there.

 

I had no idea that the Marines were connected to the Navy.  Looks like they were originally separate, then placed under the Navy in 1834.  This sound about right?  That would be loads better than already being the newest branch, then finding out you’ve now got this new thing dangling off of you that no one can take seriously.  I already know people who see the Air Force as a weak military branch.  (Obviously I don’t when the Air Force is where I desperately wanted to enlist, and my father and grandparents were in the Air Force.) I can only imagine how it must affect morale for have this thing attached to that is, to be a nice about it as possible and borrow your word, hokey.

 

But I doubt they’ll be rolled into the Air Force or anything any time soon, and so it’ll only be a matter of time before things to collect related to them will come onto the market (and I’ll be one of those people probably looking.) Where would that fall on this forum?

 

(To add: Absolutely no disrespect when mentioning this sounds like the place where people rejected from other branches can go, which is what I’ve read about it.  I actually think there’s a lot to respect about someone who wants to do what they can, and when rejected from their first choice, and on and on, decides to enlist where they can instead of walking.  Following a dream may not always work out how someone initially wanted, but finding a way to modify a dream to still hold is it pretty sweet, and I do hope that those people can feel some pride in not giving up.  But that won’t make the masses take the Space Force seriously.  What combat will they ever face?)

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I like to say they were created so the Coast Guard had someone to make fun if.

 

I'm all seriousness, they'll get the last laugh because the associated skillsets are in high demand in the civilian sector. They'll get out and get good civilian jobs...which raises the question on their sustainability. Given their small size, how do they retain enough quality people to remain operationally relevant with the private sector poaching their best people? Outside of the Marine Corps, nobody is making retention goals in the current environment to begin with.

 

Personally I think Space Command could have just been expanded to fill identified capability gaps.

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Patrick AFB in FLA has been changed to Patrick SFB for a while now. Surprised you haven't seen the threads on here about the Space Force . . . I bet this has been a really public thing for five or more years at least. The Space race has been and will still be a thing because of air power. Never really about landing on the moon. Sis and I have been fans of the original Space race forever and immersed ourselves in VHS documentaries and books and loved going to museums that had anything related to it. 

 

Also, just a thought . . .combat itself is not the only end "product" when looking at the big picture. some things are fought in a more passive way than hand-to-hand with bayonets. If you watch the episode "Grand Design" form the British show "Yes, Prime Minister" . . . it timelessly explains this situation. :)

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 "Personally I think Space Command could have just been expanded to fill identified capability gaps."

 

> That's what I thought too... anyhoo, it's taken USAF since 1947 to sort out (maybe) its rank insignia.

 

 

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Salvage Sailor
10 hours ago, Bluehawk said:

 "Personally I think Space Command could have just been expanded to fill identified capability gaps."

 

> That's what I thought too... anyhoo, it's taken USAF since 1947 to sort out (maybe) its rank insignia.

 

 

 

Ditto, it already existed for decades within the existing Armed Forces branches

 

NAVALSPACECOMMAND003.jpg.0900e1e5a38cf0cd3b13f6375e38e83f.jpg

Established in 1985

NAVALSPACECOMMAND001.jpg.04b542c60b58911b4cca73b8f8e3fc65.jpg

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11 hours ago, stratasfan said:

 

 

Also, just a thought . . .combat itself is not the only end "product" when looking at the big picture. some things are fought in a more passive way than hand-to-hand with bayonets. If you watch the episode "Grand Design" form the British show "Yes, Prime Minister" . . . it timelessly explains this situation. :)

 

After two decades and two wars, I don't need a British television show to explain the situation. Yes, there is a place for that, and there are roles in the branches that do just that...however, those individuals belong to an organization that participates in direct combat and have a warrior culture, the individuals filling that role were brought up to be warriors by warriors, and they can largely be assigned roles where they will be forward deployed and have physical skin in the game.

 

As of now, the Space Force doesn't have that. The NSA, CIA, and countless other federal agencies contribute to the fight with few to no actual combatants. Arguably NASA could have been expanded to fill the role of Space Force in this capacity. They already shark a large amount of military talent.

 

The branches have a problem as is with playing well together...so much so that the SECDEF has had to reemphasize the priority of the joint force and direct them to play together more often. Further splintering the military is not going to help the issue. There's argument to be had that all branches should merge and wear a single nametape that says "US Military", and we could focus more on the mission and less on the infighting. The Space Force is simply another competitor for DOD dollars and its debatable whether or not they'll contribute to the "big blue arrows" in a way that the Air Force wasn't already on its own.

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16 hours ago, stratasfan said:

Patrick AFB in FLA has been changed to Patrick SFB for a while now. Surprised you haven't seen the threads on here about the Space Force . . . I bet this has been a really public thing for five or more years at least. The Space race has been and will still be a thing because of air power. Never really about landing on the moon. Sis and I have been fans of the original Space race forever and immersed ourselves in VHS documentaries and books and loved going to museums that had anything related to it. 

 

Also, just a thought . . .combat itself is not the only end "product" when looking at the big picture. some things are fought in a more passive way than hand-to-hand with bayonets. If you watch the episode "Grand Design" form the British show "Yes, Prime Minister" . . . it timelessly explains this situation. :)


I didn’t think it actually happened, so hadn’t been looking for anything here about it. It simply hasn’t been news where I am. Might be more of news in areas where there were AFBs that were taken away and redesignated as SFBs. 

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5 hours ago, Brig said:

 

After two decades and two wars, I don't need a British television show to explain the situation. Yes, there is a place for that, and there are roles in the branches that do just that...however, those individuals belong to an organization that participates in direct combat and have a warrior culture, the individuals filling that role were brought up to be warriors by warriors, and they can largely be assigned roles where they will be forward deployed and have physical skin in the game.

 

As of now, the Space Force doesn't have that. The NSA, CIA, and countless other federal agencies contribute to the fight with few to no actual combatants. Arguably NASA could have been expanded to fill the role of Space Force in this capacity. They already shark a large amount of military talent.

 

The branches have a problem as is with playing well together...so much so that the SECDEF has had to reemphasize the priority of the joint force and direct them to play together more often. Further splintering the military is not going to help the issue. There's argument to be had that all branches should merge and wear a single nametape that says "US Military", and we could focus more on the mission and less on the infighting. The Space Force is simply another competitor for DOD dollars and it’s debatable weather xor not they'll contribute to the "big blue arrows" in a way that the Air Force wasn't already on its own.


Excellent post, and you are 100% right that this new branch is just causing further division and competition between branches that already don’t like to work together. I grew up thinking the branches there were existed so that people who wanted to enlist could enlist in an area they were most interested in, like thinking that the Air Force for those interested in aviation, the Navy for those interested in the open seas, Coast Guard for those wanting to stay closer in the water doing more search and rescue and such, the Army and Marines…okay, I was raised believing the Marines were the brains and the Army the brawn, doing similar things….   And the competition isn’t even friendly. 
 

The Space Race was cool, sure, but surely that was covered by NASA (and now Space X).  
 

I can only imagine the animosity that those in the Air Force must have right now even they’ve lost entire bases to this be breach that doesn’t have a reason to exist. 

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6 hours ago, Noelle said:


Excellent post, and you are 100% right that this new branch is just causing further division and competition between branches that already don’t like to work together. I grew up thinking the branches there were existed so that people who wanted to enlist could enlist in an area they were most interested in, like thinking that the Air Force for those interested in aviation, the Navy for those interested in the open seas, Coast Guard for those wanting to stay closer in the water doing more search and rescue and such, the Army and Marines…okay, I was raised believing the Marines were the brains and the Army the brawn, doing similar things….   And the competition isn’t even friendly. 
 

The Space Race was cool, sure, but surely that was covered by NASA (and now Space X).  
 

I can only imagine the animosity that those in the Air Force must have right now even they’ve lost entire bases to this be breach that doesn’t have a reason to exist. 

It’s not about a race in space but a war in space.

 

NASA and Space X dont have military capabilities.

 

 

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3 hours ago, manayunkman said:

It’s not about a race in space but a war in space.

 

NASA and Space X dont have military capabilities.

 

 

> Truth in that... very.

 

I'm seeing though that USSF is having some sort of problem (OPSEC?) widely explaining its logistical and tactical mission commensurate with replacing the USAF Space Command (it wasn't doing a good enough job?) - which in itself is still functioning at various levels and places. What with China, India, Russia and heaven knows who else populating space with heaven knows what devices and weapons - USSF must have way more going on than they can talk about in public.

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9 hours ago, Bluehawk said:

> Truth in that... very.

 

I'm seeing though that USSF is having some sort of problem (OPSEC?) widely explaining its logistical and tactical mission commensurate with replacing the USAF Space Command (it wasn't doing a good enough job?) - which in itself is still functioning at various levels and places. What with China, India, Russia and heaven knows who else populating space with heaven knows what devices and weapons - USSF must have way more going on than they can talk about in public.

 They're having trouble explaining their mission because they were rushed into existence and are undergoing an identity crisis. This has been pretty common over the last few decades. For instance, my first unit was a brand new unit that had just been stood up. It had an anti-terrorism mission, but the leadership either didn't understand this or chose to willfully disregard this and treat it as if it were a counter-terror unit. As anyone who has done either mission can attest, though they sound similar they are wildly different, and counter-terror requires a much larger logistical footprint than anti-terror.

 

Another example is MARSOC, who couldn't give a solid answer on their mission for years. Some would argue that they still struggle with it. A common feeling when they were activated is that they were a giant "Eff You" to SOCOM as part of a longstanding feud between them and the Marine Corps. MARSOC still struggles to be accepted and taken seriously by other special operation units.

 

I predict that Space Force has a long uphill climb before they enjoy anything resembling acceptance among the majority of the DOD 

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  • 2 months later...

The sad thing is Space Force basically already existed, as the USAF already had at least four designated Space Wings including the 30th at Vandenberg and 45th at Patrick+Canaveral. Even setting aside the jokes (and less than stellar PR), it didn't really seem necessary to make it a separate branch of service from the USAF, at least not at this time.

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> Maybe they know something about possible space warfare that they're not telling us, yet or ever? The people who started this aren't fools or conniving saboteurs. As Brig alluded to, they have a steep hill to climb in public relations, but I have to believe they know what they're doing and are doing it thoroughly.

 

Their flag...

800px-Flag_of_the_United_States_Space_Force_(fringed)_svg.png.a7dff88f261b833a04e1d10a3c8a76ac.png

 

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I don't think anyone is arguing that the capability is needed, however, it is debatable that a new branch was necessary. As was pointed out, the Air Force was already doing these things, and as the parent of Space Force will continue to manage these things. Some people like to say that every domain necessitates its own branch, yet we don't see anyone clamoring for a cyber branch.

 

Just a couple of years ago the Army and Navy released a piece discussing how they'd chop up the Marine Corps as they believed it redundant and irrelevant. There was, and certainly remains, very little appetite among the branches for an additional branch.

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  • 2 months later...
tdurbinmas
On 11/24/2023 at 6:18 PM, Bluehawk said:

> Maybe they know something about possible space warfare that they're not telling us, yet or ever? The people who started this aren't fools or conniving saboteurs. As Brig alluded to, they have a steep hill to climb in public relations, but I have to believe they know what they're doing and are doing it thoroughly.

 

Their flag...

800px-Flag_of_the_United_States_Space_Force_(fringed)_svg.png.a7dff88f261b833a04e1d10a3c8a76ac.png

 

 

IMG_1583.jpeg

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Let's suppose Major Smith is leading his group of five high climbing jets with the goal of reaching a record altitude.  An accident occurs involving two or three of the jets at their maximum altitude.  Thankfully, no one is killed as the failing jets descended to a lower elevation so that the pilots could safely bail out.  Of course, this will all come before a board so that it can blame someone.  At which elevation does jurisdiction pass from the Air Force to the Space Force?  Asking for a friend...

 

Steve

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