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Do these tack marks look original?


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BILL THE PATCH

This 11th Abn 50's helmet has these tack marks. Do they look good or no?, To me they don't, would like other opinions please. 

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268th C.A.

not too me... Look at the wear on the cork finish on the Green, compared to the white with little to no wear. JMO

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BILL THE PATCH

A Facebook person guaranteed it original. Lol. And he wasn't even the seller. Someone else chimed in and said he didn't like it, he was chastised for ruining someone's sale. People jumped all over him. I knew it was fake but had to hear it.

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sgtdorango

I used to own this one, 1000% legit in hand...its from the 1950s era so has had a few repaints and tac marks painted on an old ww2 helmet, its a little odd color and rigger sewn chinstraps but its a good one.....mike👍🏻

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sgtdorango

Yes it was at the SOS on my table for sale, long story but my buddy rick bought the helmet from a helmet dealer a little while ago but now has to unexpectedly thin out his collection, rick lives in canada and had the helmet shipped to my house here in the usa , so instead of sending it to him in canada he asked me to try to sell it at a few shows for him, he just put it on a facebook page to sell recently...(using my photos) its a great original helmet i dont know why its being questioned, these 1950s helmets cant be judged the same way as ww2 helmets, they have had many lives and paint jobs including some that have many tac marks on top of old tac marks and some have just one paint job and little use , a whole different animal than the ww2 painted helmets.....mike

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BILL THE PATCH

I thought the the tac marks looked to newish. I'll take your word mike. Thanks. The funny thing is the guy was showing a period photo of said tac marks and the two pics weren't even close. 

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sgtdorango

The period pics show a variaty of the stencils ised for the same tac marks, lots of variations in them in all the units, its what i collect and fun to see the differences, tac marks being applied at different times with slightly different stencils and some done free hand without stencils....bill if he doesnt sell it by then i will bring it to mattydale show so you can look at it in person so you can have an in hand inspection compared to judging it by photos...not trying to sell it to you but will be a fun learning experience in hand👍🏻...mike

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pump 150

I knew this was a good one as soon as I saw those wood stairs…. 😉

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1canpara

I’m that guy and this is my helmet, and yes I asked Mike to help me sell it, mainly because in many collectors opinions he’s the 50s airborne expert, plus he used to own it at one point. It’s actually quite appalling that so many snap judgements are made and my credibility and honesty was called into judgement. I'm also a long time helmet collector and I do my homework before I buy anything. I don’t sell anything that’s a hump job, because I do my best not to buy any crap.

 

The guy who essentially screwed my sales thread on that FB group, made his opinion known, clearly not knowing what he was talking about, and then when some of the well known helmet collectors chimed in supporting its legitimacy, he deleted his remarks without so much as an apology or some kind of supportive comments. Very uncool. 
 

Anyway, rant over, but I have to say a few of you here were quick to slag this helmet and call it fake also. I’m a long time USMF member and have bought and sold dozens of helmets here. It’s too bad that our hobby has come to this calling out of so many helmets as fake without proof. Marked helmets are a minefield there’s no doubt, but as Mike said, these 50s helmets cannot be judged the same as WWII marked helmets, and I’ve never seen a 50s airborne helmet faked….yet. Photos are what they are, a representation of the item, but in hand is always best obviously. 
 

I was going to cancel that FB post and list it here, but I think I’ve changed my mind on that. But if anyone wants a legit, named and complete 11th airborne helmet, you know how to reach me. 
 

Rick

 

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ArchangelDM

If Rick and Mike have had this helmet in hand that is more than anyone can ask for ! Experienced collectors and honest men that actually know what their talking about. 
 

my opinion was based off of WW2 markings, 50s markings are a whole different kettle of fish and ones

i have little experience with. I should have read the post correctly 


- Dean 

 

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bigschuss

I wouldn't get so bent out of shape.  The OP's pics are not the best quality.  The title of the thread asks "Are These TAC marks original?"  Based on the pics...I can't see how ANYBODY could tell if they are original.  They look brand new.  They look poorly done.  In hand maybe they tell a different story.  

 

This is exactly why high quality pics are so important.   I also wouldn't accept or reject a helmet based on who owned it in the past.  A helmet has to speak for itself.  

 

 

 

 

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1canpara
2 hours ago, bigschuss said:

I also wouldn't accept or reject a helmet based on who owned it in the past.  A helmet has to speak for itself.  

 
I entirely agree with this, but on the sales thread at least 3 experienced helmet collectors, who most of us know and respect, came on the thread to say that they had seen and examined it in person and vouched for its authenticity, it wasn’t just “who owned it in the past” in this case. I also agree that good quality photos are essential, but in my opinion if someone has questions they can ask for more photos, but to come out immediately and throw out an opinion that will most certainly kill a sale of a legit helmet is a bit unfair. The kicker was not just the opinions that were made, but then two of the guys started mocking the helmet and me. That’s just immature and uncalled for. 
 

Enough said. I’m over it now, and if I ever sell the helmet, the new owner will be lucky to get a really nice original airborne helmet. 
 

 

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elh1311
47 minutes ago, 1canpara said:

 
I entirely agree with this, but on the sales thread at least 3 experienced helmet collectors, who most of us know and respect, came on the thread to say that they had seen and examined it in person and vouched for its authenticity, it wasn’t just “who owned it in the past” in this case. I also agree that good quality photos are essential, but in my opinion if someone has questions they can ask for more photos, but to come out immediately and throw out an opinion that will most certainly kill a sale of a legit helmet is a bit unfair. The kicker was not just the opinions that were made, but then two of the guys started mocking the helmet and me. That’s just immature and uncalled for. 
 

Enough said. I’m over it now, and if I ever sell the helmet, the new owner will be lucky to get a really nice original airborne helmet. 
 

 

I saw your post on FB and it just reinforced my weariness of that particular page. I knew your helmet was legit because it had been posted here before in the "11th Airborne Division '50 helmets" thread. It's on the first page and literally one of the first helmets posted. And that was in 2009! No doubt there are 1950's helmet forgeries around but they seem to be almost exclusively 187th ARCT helmets and not nearly as prolific as WWII ones. I own one that was rightly pointed out by members of this forum and I'm grateful they did so. 

 

I'm sorry that you had to endure that. It's an absolutely gorgeous helmet and one I would love to own. I am not in position to hazard an offer to you at this exact time but if you do care to sell in the coming months, please let me know. 

11th Airborne Division '50 helmets - M-1; M-1C & M-2 HELMETS - U.S. Militaria Forum (usmilitariaforum.com)

 

 

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ArchangelDM
1 hour ago, 1canpara said:

 
I entirely agree with this, but on the sales thread at least 3 experienced helmet collectors, who most of us know and respect, came on the thread to say that they had seen and examined it in person and vouched for its authenticity, it wasn’t just “who owned it in the past” in this case. I also agree that good quality photos are essential, but in my opinion if someone has questions they can ask for more photos, but to come out immediately and throw out an opinion that will most certainly kill a sale of a legit helmet is a bit unfair. The kicker was not just the opinions that were made, but then two of the guys started mocking the helmet and me. That’s just immature and uncalled for. 
 

Enough said. I’m over it now, and if I ever sell the helmet, the new owner will be lucky to get a really nice original airborne helmet. 
 

 


I don’t have social media, no Facebook or instagram, but I’m guessing it can be a nasty little place to be at times. 
you should not have to endure anyone mocking you and the helmet, uncalled for and unfair 

 

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1canpara
58 minutes ago, ArchangelDM said:


I don’t have social media, no Facebook or instagram, but I’m guessing it can be a nasty little place to be at times. 
you should not have to endure anyone mocking you and the helmet, uncalled for and unfair 

 


Thanks Dean

 

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bigschuss
3 hours ago, 1canpara said:

 
I entirely agree with this, but on the sales thread at least 3 experienced helmet collectors, who most of us know and respect, came on the thread to say that they had seen and examined it in person and vouched for its authenticity, it wasn’t just “who owned it in the past” in this case. I also agree that good quality photos are essential, but in my opinion if someone has questions they can ask for more photos, but to come out immediately and throw out an opinion that will most certainly kill a sale of a legit helmet is a bit unfair. The kicker was not just the opinions that were made, but then two of the guys started mocking the helmet and me. That’s just immature and uncalled for. 
 

Enough said. I’m over it now, and if I ever sell the helmet, the new owner will be lucky to get a really nice original airborne helmet. 
 

 

 

I agree completely.  It's really too bad when FB posters or forum posters start in with ad hominem attacks.  Sorry to hear that.  

 

Good luck with your sale.  

 

 

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Rakkasan187

I have purchased items from Rick and Mike before and have also worked with Mike regarding 187th history. We have collaborated on name searches and other information as we both seem to have a decent collection of 187th and 11th Airborne unit histories and other reference books.  I have a decent collection of 187th items (mostly uniforms) as Mike knows and in my humble opinion both Mike and Rick are two of the most knowledgeable and reputable gentlemen in this particular arena and I trust their word regarding authenticity of TAC marked 1950s era helmets, and I would have no issues purchasing said helmet from either.

 

I recall some years back a discussion regarding the paint colors used in marking helmets for the Musan Ni Airborne assault by the 187th in Korea and there were some questions regarding a yellow marked 187th 2nd Bn. Helmet. It was thought that only white paint was used and there were plenty of Naysayers until I produced an original copy of the Operations Order for the jump from the 1950s that listed specifically paint colors to be used (white was primary and when that ran out yellow was to be used).. So right there in black and white we were able to squash the Naysayers. The Operation Order even listed the colors of the parachutes to be used to identify equipment dropped, ammo, etc,, all listed in the OPORDER.

 

Bottom line, Knowledge is power and when someone devotes a good portion of their lives researching and studying the topics as Mike and Rick do, then I have no issues with what they have to say and take their honest and respected word for what they say.

 

Just my thoughts and humble opinion.

 

Best regards all, stay safe

 

Leigh  

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1canpara
4 hours ago, Rakkasan187 said:

I have purchased items from Rick and Mike before and have also worked with Mike regarding 187th history. We have collaborated on name searches and other information as we both seem to have a decent collection of 187th and 11th Airborne unit histories and other reference books.  I have a decent collection of 187th items (mostly uniforms) as Mike knows and in my humble opinion both Mike and Rick are two of the most knowledgeable and reputable gentlemen in this particular arena and I trust their word regarding authenticity of TAC marked 1950s era helmets, and I would have no issues purchasing said helmet from either.

 

I recall some years back a discussion regarding the paint colors used in marking helmets for the Musan Ni Airborne assault by the 187th in Korea and there were some questions regarding a yellow marked 187th 2nd Bn. Helmet. It was thought that only white paint was used and there were plenty of Naysayers until I produced an original copy of the Operations Order for the jump from the 1950s that listed specifically paint colors to be used (white was primary and when that ran out yellow was to be used).. So right there in black and white we were able to squash the Naysayers. The Operation Order even listed the colors of the parachutes to be used to identify equipment dropped, ammo, etc,, all listed in the OPORDER.

 

Bottom line, Knowledge is power and when someone devotes a good portion of their lives researching and studying the topics as Mike and Rick do, then I have no issues with what they have to say and take their honest and respected word for what they say.

 

Just my thoughts and humble opinion.

 

Best regards all, stay safe

 

Leigh  


 

Thanks for your kind words Leigh, it’s much appreciated!

 

Hope all is well with you!

 

Rick

 

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BILL THE PATCH

I was just asking for better pics, if I had known Mike or canpara knew this helmet I wouldn't have asked. I've done business with both.  And Mike has been extremely helpful to me. I'm new to FB and wish I knew the history about the helmet. Wasn't trying to cause a ruckus.

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  • 1 month later...
TheGoose
On 3/8/2022 at 4:14 PM, BILL THE PATCH said:

A Facebook person guaranteed it original. Lol. And he wasn't even the seller. Someone else chimed in and said he didn't like it, he was chastised for ruining someone's sale. People jumped all over him. I knew it was fake but had to hear it.

 

Like I said on Facebook, you can buy this helmet with absolute confidence in its originality.  It was handled at SOS by many prolific M1 collectors who all said it is good.

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elh1311
13 minutes ago, TheGoose said:

 

Like I said on Facebook, you can buy this helmet with absolute confidence in its originality.  It was handled at SOS by many prolific M1 collectors who all said it is good.

I can confirm this to be the case. Many thanks to Rick and Mike. 

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