M17 rifle 30-06

[NCM1RIFLE82]

We're m1917 rifles use during ww2 I know they were used during ww1 but would like to know if they were used by us troops anytime in the 40's

[Big Al]

I have read that they were still in use with certain artillery units, the chemical mortar platoons in particular. They were also used by rear-echelon troops, such as drivers and signalmen.

[Mitter2k1]

Here is a discussion that may answer your question.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/112371-m1917-rifle-lifespan/

[RustyCanteen]

The M1917 rifle was still in use during WWII; the Army mostly relegated them to training & stateside use while the US Coast Guard (and perhaps the Navy) issued them for guard duty.

 

Several thousand rifles were sold to the Philippines in the late 1930s being used to arm the Philippine Army (US Army Philippine Scouts were armed with M1903 and even M1 Garands). During the Philippine campaign of December 1941-May 1942 many M1917s found their way into the hands of US personnel.

 

There were also large amounts of M1917's sent to Canada, the United Kingdom, China and others. I believe there was even some Free-French use of them.

 

RC

[SKYLINE DRIVE]

They were used by the Dutch military units formed in the liberated areas as well as by Free French troops. I remember seeing numerous pictures of Colonial troops fighting in the Vosges that were equipped with either the P1907 or the 1903A3.

[NCM1RIFLE82]

Thanks guys one of my main impressions is pre war to early war stateside I'm going to put a m17 on layaway tomorrow and when I get a picture is going up thanks

[Promo]

The M1917 is even still in useage. Denmark received in 1953 and 1954 38.395 M1917s from Canada and additionally 10.000 each in 1956 and 1959 from Norway. They are still using the M1917 on Greenland (bolt-action rifles are better in such cold conditions). Source: "Vaabenhistorisk Tidsskrift 1996".

[Mitter2k1]

The M1917 is even still in useage. Denmark received in 1953 and 1954 38.395 M1917s from Canada and additionally 10.000 each in 1956 and 1959 from Norway. They are still using the M1917 on Greenland (bolt-action rifles are better in such cold conditions). Source: "Vaabenhistorisk Tidsskrift 1996".

 

I wish they could send a few back to flood the market so the price will go down. I have the 1917's older brother, the P14. It's a cool rifle, but I have yet to shoot it due to difficulty in finding ammo.

[Big Al]

An interesting quirk of the M1917 concerns the magazine. Since the rifle was originally chambered in .303 British, which was a rimmed round, the magazine box is larger than what is needed for 5 rounds of .30-'06. Consequently, it is possible to load 6 rounds into the magazine of the M1917 at once.

[robinb]

The Alaska Territorial Guard were issued M1917 rifles.

[Linedoggie]

We're m1917 rifles use during ww2 I know they were used during ww1 but would like to know if they were used by us troops anytime in the 40's

Many were used in the Bataan campaign. It was the standard Rifle of the Philippine Army, and also used by grounded USAAF men.

 

Used by the British Home Guard with a 2 inch red band painted on the forward handguard 119,000 sent to UK

Used by the Free French in Italy

Use in large numbers by the Nationalist Chinese Army 152,241

Used by USCG

[45ACP]

Yes six in the magazine then push top cartridge down start the bolt forward to hold the six rds. Than insert the 7th cartridge in the chamber for full load of seven rounds that is what mine will hold. No need for a bolt hold open like on the M1903.

An interesting quirk of the M1917 concerns the magazine. Since the rifle was originally chambered in .303 British, which was a rimmed round, the magazine box is larger than what is needed for 5 rounds of .30-'06. Consequently, it is possible to load 6 rounds into the magazine of the M1917 at once.

[Promo]

Since the rifles were lend-lease, the only possible way of an import back into the US would be through the CMP. And when considering that most of the rifles were sold by Denmark themselves, there are not that many left anyway to send these back. But no need to worry, Denmark decided anyway that they'd do the same stupid thing all states are now starting - weapons which are obsolete will be destroyed and not being sold..

 

The M1917s for Greenland featured a cut-off rear sight and a new v-notch rear sight which has been dovetailed into the barrel, with a clearance cutout in the rear handguard. This due to the icing conditions, where the "hole" rear sight would be easily filled with snow and therefore be useless in the icing conditions. Anyway the M1917 would be mainly used to shoot attacking ice bears rather than to shoot bank robbers .

 

Also worth mentioning: some people keep wondering why their M1917 has a notch milled into the receiver of their M1917 rifle. This notch was added by the Norwegian Army, just like they did with the K98k rifles they adopted to .30-06. The reason is because they had a special stripper clip adaptor and to be able to load with that one they had to mill this notch.

 

Secondly, for the collectors: the Danish Army also had 2500 M1917 converted to .22 trainers. They used a feed-barrel and a welded a single-loading adaptor into the magazine guard. Sorry guys, according to what I've written above all of them were destroyed - took me a few years to finally get one which had survived this madness..

 

In my opinion the P.13/P.14/M1917 system was by far the better rifle, both compared to the M1903 and the SMLE rifle. Also the .276 Enfield cartridge which was tested in the P.13 rifle would have allowed the British army to get a superior caliber which was rimless. But then WWI came and everything had to be changed. Nevertheless, the fact that the US introduced the M1917 shows that the design of this rifle was not bad, aswell as does the fact that the best sniper rifles in WWI were the P.14 snipers - extremely precise, extremely durable in handling. If I had to serve back then, I'd have chosen this rifle.

[dalbert]

I'm also a fan of the M1917 Rifle, and yes, it was used during WWII. Evidence of this is that there were 2 WWII era M1917 Rifle Field Manuals issued. Incidentally, the August 3, 1942 version refers to the M1917 as the "Enfield," which is a designation that some have regarded as incorrect. The nickname was apparently so popular that it graced the front of the FM in an official capacity.

 

A WWII Base Shop Data manual also exists, which is pictured in the collage from my collection below.

 

 

 

 

David Albert

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[45ACP]

Can you tell us why the lower rifle has a shorter barrel?

I'm also a fan of the M1917 Rifle, and yes, it was used during WWII. Evidence of this is that there were 2 WWII era M1917 Rifle Field Manuals issued. Incidentally, the August 3, 1942 version refers to the M1917 as the "Enfield," which is a designation that some have regarded as incorrect. The nickname was apparently so popular that it graced the front of the FM in an official capacity.

 

A WWII Base Shop Data manual also exists, which is pictured in the collage from my collection below.

 

 

 

 

David Albert

[email protected]

 

[Irish Rob]

I have read that they were still in use with certain artillery units, the chemical mortar platoons in particular. They were also used by rear-echelon troops, such as drivers and signalmen.

 

81st Chemical Mortar Bn in training at Ft. D. A. Russell, TX. Those are 1903s. Later in France, M1 Carbine and M1 Garand.

[dalbert]

Can you tell us why the lower rifle has a shorter barrel?

 

 

You have a good eye. The short barrel on this M1917 is a subject of some controversy. I corresponded with Bruce Canfeld about this rifle several years ago, and I'll say that that we did not arrive at anything conclusive. I've been told in the past that it was shortened for use by Filipino forces. I have also been told the Navy shortened some M1917's, but I don't have any documentary evidence for the Navy account. We know that Filipino forces used these rifles, but also don't know of any documentary evidence to support official shortening of M1917's. So, I welcome any evidence that may be known by members here.

 

As far as physical evidence, this example rife is compelling. Nothing about it indicates it was a civilian conversion. We don't know much about its origin. It was purchased in Austin, Texas around 1988 through a classified ad. For several years, my brother and I didn't realize it was shorter than normal, because we didn't see it next to other M1917's. It's quite worn, and it's definitely one of those guns that I wish could talk, so that its mystery could be solved.

 

Any input you have is appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

David Albert

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[gomorgan]

Many pictures show the 10th Mountain Div. in training in Co. issued 1917's.

[sundance]

This may have been mentioned but I've heard they were issued to National Guard or some type of home guard ( if there was such a thing) units in Alaska.

[dalbert]

I was at the U.S. Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio yesterday for the "Final Toast" of the remaining Doolittle Raiders, and I found a display that I thought would be of interest in this thread. It states that USAAF personnel fighting on the ground in the Pacific Theatre used M1917's, among other weapons.

 

 

David Albert

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[RustyCanteen]

I was at the U.S. Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio yesterday for the "Final Toast" of the remaining Doolittle Raiders, and I found a display that I thought would be of interest in this thread. It states that USAAF personnel fighting on the ground in the Pacific Theatre used M1917's, among other weapons.

 

USAF_M1917-1_Web.JPGUSAF_M1917-2_Web.JPG

 

David Albert

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That is a nice display!

 

Just to be clear (in case anyone misunderstands) the display is set in 1941-1942 in the Philippines, and the M1917 was standard issue for the Philippine Army. Due to the loss of airfields and aircraft many USAAF personnel became infantryman with whatever weapons could be found to arm them.

 

RC