Today's Great Medal Haul

[GIl Sanow]

You should be able to get his enlistment info from Nat'l Archives in DC. Go to NARA.gov and follow the genealogy thread -- you should be able to fill out the request form online. I would recomend authorizing them to send you what they have by prepaying using a credit card.

 

Good luck.

 

G

[Adam R]

You should be able to get his enlistment info from Nat'l Archives in DC. Go to NARA.gov and follow the genealogy thread -- you should be able to fill out the request form online. I would recomend authorizing them to send you what they have by prepaying using a credit card.

 

 

Unfortunately records on Regular Army personnel are not generally available through the mail using the online order system nor by mailing in a request. The only service files that can be easily ordered though the mail are only those for men in Volunteer units in the Civil War, Span Am War and Philippine Insurrection. Unfortunately similar files do not exist for Regular Army men. There are records on Regular Army enlisted men but they are scattered in about four different Record Groups and Entries, some of which are not in alphabetical order by name . Accessing them requires in person research at the Archives and can be a time consuming process. It can take a full day of work to access the records on just one person, especially when working with the AGO doc files, which are often one of the best sources of information. Because this is so labor intensive the Archives staff will not do this type of work in response to a written request. They will recommend that you visit the Archives in person or hire a local researcher. Since the recipient of Philip's medals was Regular Army it will probably take an in person visit to the Archives to thoroughly research his military service.

 

The following was copied from the Archives order form for Volunteer service files;

 

"Compilations of information concerning Army service in volunteer organizations during the nineteenth and early twentieth

centuries are available. Such records were not compiled for Regular Army officers who served before 1863 and for Regular

Army enlisted men who served during most of the nineteenth century. Records pertaining to that service tend to be limited.

We will copy those records which pertain to the soldier in question that can be retrieved by name. This will not represent all of

the information scattered among a variety of records. We are not able to undertake the research required to locate all such

documents. "

[KASTAUFFER]

I would recommend an Ancestry.com subscription and also one to Fold3. The regular army register of enlistment records are on Ancestry as well as lots of other useful databases. It costs money, but being able to research just one medal group makes it pay for itself.

 

Kurt

[KASTAUFFER]

Here is what a register of enlistments looks like

 

 

 

[Medalman90]

congrats on your find! two thumbs up!

[History Man]

Thank you, it is probably my best find of the year and was a great way to spend a Friday! I am going to be purchasing a subscription to ancestry.com and possibly fold3 in the near future as well.

 

Philip

[GIl Sanow]

Well, I have had good luck with SAW and IW vets -- both officers and EMs..I would give it a shot. If they find nothing, they will charge nothing.

 

G

[Adam R]

Well, I have had good luck with SAW and IW vets -- both officers and EMs..I would give it a shot. If they find nothing, they will charge nothing.

 

G

 

That's very interesting information. I don't doubt your word but it contradicts what the staff has told me in the past. Perhaps the policy has changed since I got my information? On the files that you received did the soldier serve in a volunteer unit or a Regular Army unit? By chance do you know what Record Group and Entry number the records were copied from? I'm guessing that your SAW records were probably to men in volunteer units. For IW and SAW era Regular Army officers the Archives does have some compiled service files but only for a small percentage of the total number of officers who served. Were you able to get info on IW and SAW Regular Army enlisted men through the mail? If so, I'm very curious to know which Records Groups and Entries it came from. I'm asking these questions because I don't want Philip to get get his expectations too high about what he might be able to get through the mail. Also, I'm very interested to know what types of records, other than volunteer service files, the Archives will now provide through the mail.

 

Sometimes the staff will copy files if you can tell them in your request which specific Record Group and Entry to search. Also, the name that you request has to be very unusual or unique so that the staff will know that they are copying records on the right person. For common names it's necessary to have additional identifying information that will allow them to easily identify the correct records. This applies to both service records and pension files.

 

One final thought. Ordering records from the Archives in Washington can be similar to requesting files from St. Louis. The response you receive is often determined by the level of knowledge and training of the staff member who responds to the request. Some of them do a great job and really make an effort. Others, unfortunately a large percentage, don't care about their job and don't make an effort. So the same request can generate to completely different responses depending upon which staff member happens to process it.

 

Sorry to drift a bit from the original topic of this thread. Perhaps it's time to start another one on how to research the service of 19th Century Army enlisted men and officers....?

[GIl Sanow]

All of my experience has been with Regular Army soldiers.

 

Use the form found at: http://www.archives.gov/forms/pdf/natf-86.pdf

 

Submit it electronically.

 

G

[skautdog]

Wow! Very nice. if those medals could only talk. That Indian Wars Medal is truly special.

Ken

[History Man]

I will give it a try and see what happens. Thank you Ken, I had been looking for early campaign medals for a while and was amazed to find this group.

 

Philip

[Adam R]

Below are the issue cards for Hein's three medals that I copied this past weekend at the National Archives. Note that the unit shown on the cards is Hein's unit at the time that the medals were issued to him in 1908 and 1909.

[Adam R]

Cards for the Spanish Campaign and Philippine Campaign Medals. Note that the last name is misspelled "Heim" on the Spanish card.

[Adam R]

This is the name index card for the Indian Wars Medal, which shows the units when the medal was earned. In this case Hein was with both the 16th Infantry Regiment and the 1st Infantry. Note that the medal rim number is written in red ink. The "Serial Number 651" is NOT the medal number but is instead a number that was assigned by the AGO when they approved the issue of the medal.

 

Requests for medals were submitted to the AGO which verified that the soldier had service which qualified for a medal. Once the service was verified the AGO then sent instructions to the Quartermaster to issue the medal. The cards shown above and below were copied from QM records.

[Adam R]

Cards for the Spanish and Philippine, both showing service with the band of the 21st Infantry Regiment.

[History Man]

Thank you very much for the help and additional info Adam, I appreciate it. Having them with the medals is really great and adds to the group.

 

Philip

[RustyCanteen]

That is some fine detective work!

[bunkerhillburning]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the fair market value of a numbered Indian wars medal. That is really a stunning medal.

[Wharfmaster]

Great find. Outstanding info. too !

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

W

[kanemono]

A great group and great research. Researching the medals really makes collection fun and rewarding.

Dick

[Adam R]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the fair market value of a numbered Indian wars medal. That is really a stunning medal.

An attributed IW medal that was awarded for Pine Ridge, the most common and least desirable of the campaigns, is probably $1200 to $1500. If the recipient was in a cavalry regiment this will help the value. Medals awarded for the earlier campaigns in the 1870s or 1880s will start in the $2000 to $2500 range and will go up from there, depending on the details of the recipient's service. Medals to officers or Buffalo Soldiers (9th & 10th Cav and 24th & 25th Infantry) will also be worth more.

[KASTAUFFER]

How about one to an Indian Scout

 

Kurt

[bunkerhillburning]

Adam,

My sincere thanks!

[ReverendJake]

Great find! And,I recommend you keeping the original ribbon on the Indian War.

+1

 

That's the first style ribbon, particularly cool!

[History Man]

Thank you, I am going to keep the ribbons on the medals and will not touch them. I believe even though they are tattered and worn, they give an "untouched" characteristic to the group.

 

Philip