I'm not familiar with this maker and I just wanted to make sure it's ww2. If it is ww2 is this maker uncommon?

It is made by Bowman. It is WWII vintage and is a scarce one.

 

Allan

I have never seen this hallmark on this DUI before which is probably why the asking price is so high.  I spoke with the owner a month or so ago and he got it out of a large collection he had purchased.  

@Allan H. Thank you for your help like always Allan.

@Tonomachi Ya I'm thinking about buying it. I started collecting airborne items probably about 3 years ago but I didn't get serious about it until a couple months ago and I'm just trying my best to add a couple cool pieces in my collection. I look at everyone's collection on here and I'm jealous, especially Allan collection haha. But I know it takes years but unfortunately it's alot harder to find these items now then it was 10 -15 years ago. I'm dying to add a 501st dui to my collection.

You are so right, Brandon.  Not too many out there with a better collection, or more importantly the knowledge, that Allan H has here on this forum.  He is (and has been for years) my "go to guy" when it comes to anything WWII Airborne!  He is a wealth of knowledge and is always willing to share his expertise.  If he says "its a rare one" then you can bet it is just as he says.  I have dealt with Allan for decades and he has been a great source of wisdom for me across the years.

 

 

Great DUI, btw!  325 is my "go to" unit for collecting for familial reasons.

@Brian Dentino Yes I'm new here and I'm quickly finding out Allan is the man around here. I'm going through old threads and seeing he's been helping people for years. And alot of those all threads help me out alot.

 

Speaking about the 82nd airborne I'm trying to find more information about them. Like what battles they fought in and exactly what they did in the war. Everything online is very short and isn't very descriptive. The 101st is a completely different story there's plenty of books, YouTube videos, movies, and etc. So my studies on the 82nd haven't been going so well, do you have any recommendations?

Brandon have you seen this website:

 

http://www.ww2-airborne.us/division/82_overview.html
 

Gives information unit by unit for WWII US Airborne, although some of the information is short and generic as you say.

 

Cheers……John

Really nice DUI and a tough one to find with that maker (I can’t recall seeing it before) but I have to question if it was manufactured in the WW2 years.  DUI’s of the 325th have been manufactured since the 1920’s and for decades after WW2.   They differ by characteristics of manufacture. Every WW2 era US-made metal Infantry DUI I am familiar with was made of sterling due to the strategic metal requirements.    This example resembles so many other DUI’s manufactured in the late 40’s/early 50’s when pinbacks were still utilized, non-alpha numeric hallmarks were used and non-sterling metal was being used again.  
I see this exact DUI was being offered on EBay for $185.  If I wanted a no-doubt-about-it WW2 era 325th, I would hold out for a sterling marked example.

My opinion is it’s post WW2 manufacture.  

21 minutes ago, KurtA said:

Really nice DUI and a tough one to find with that maker (I can’t recall seeing it before) but I have to question if it was manufactured in the WW2 years.  DUI’s of the 325th have been manufactured since the 1920’s and for decades after WW2.   They differ by characteristics of manufacture. Every WW2 era US-made metal Infantry DUI I am familiar with was made of sterling due to the strategic metal requirements.    This example resembles so many other DUI’s manufactured in the late 40’s/early 50’s when pinbacks were still utilized, non-alpha numeric hallmarks were used and non-sterling metal was being used again.  
I see this exact DUI was being offered on EBay for $185.  If I wanted a no-doubt-about-it WW2 era 325th, I would hold out for a sterling marked example.

My opinion is it’s post WW2 manufacture.  

Kurt,

 

I appreciate your thoughts, but I am in complete disagreement with this piece being post-WWII. Bowman was an insignia manufacturer before and during World War II. They made a lot of New York State Guard and National Guard insignia. They seem to have disappeared after WWII also. Simply go on eBay and search for Bowman insignia and a lot of New York regimentals show up.

 

I picked up my Bowman hallmarked 325th GIR for from a WWII veteran who had actually been in the 325th Infantry Regiment when the 82nd Division was designated "Motorized." The veteran did NOT stay with the regiment when the division was re-designated an airborne division. I have always believed that the Bowman hallmarked DUI was one of the earlier examples made for the 325th when it was re-activated. I am quite confident that they Bowman marked DUIs were issued until exhausted and the more common Newcombe sterling marked DUIs were procured.

 

It is always up to the buyer to decide what he or she wants to have in their collections. If they are just wanting a WWII type example, they can buy a Newcombe for a fraction of the cost of the Bowman. If they are collecting variations and want to go after rarer pieces, I would say this Bowman is a must have, but that is just me.

 

For clarity- I have no affiliation with the seller and no interest in the piece being offered on eBay currently, but in the interest of accuracy I will reinforce my position that this is indeed a WWII vintage maker and piece.

 

Allan

10 minutes ago, Allan H. said:

Kurt,

 

I appreciate your thoughts, but I am in complete disagreement with this piece being post-WWII. Bowman was an insignia manufacturer before and during World War II. They made a lot of New York State Guard and National Guard insignia. They seem to have disappeared after WWII also. Simply go on eBay and search for Bowman insignia and a lot of New York regimentals show up.

 

I picked up my Bowman hallmarked 325th GIR for from a WWII veteran who had actually been in the 325th Infantry Regiment when the 82nd Division was designated "Motorized." The veteran did NOT stay with the regiment when the division was re-designated an airborne division. I have always believed that the Bowman hallmarked DUI was one of the earlier examples made for the 325th when it was re-activated. I am quite confident that they Bowman marked DUIs were issued until exhausted and the more common Newcombe sterling marked DUIs were procured.

 

It is always up to the buyer to decide what he or she wants to have in their collections. If they are just wanting a WWII type example, they can buy a Newcombe for a fraction of the cost of the Bowman. If they are collecting variations and want to go after rarer pieces, I would say this Bowman is a must have, but that is just me.

 

For clarity- I have no affiliation with the seller and no interest in the piece being offered on eBay currently, but in the interest of accuracy I will reinforce my position that this is indeed a WWII vintage maker and piece.

 

Allan

Allan-

With the provenance on yours, you make the case for it being "WW2 era manufacture". 

Very early WW2 (but pre airborne era) manufacture prior to sterling replacing strategic metal. 

As a "variation" collector, this is a DUI I would love to have, but would value it along the lines as a good "pre WW2 unit" DUI.  That "magical airborne association" that can be put on it  jacks the price way up. (In the same manner  of that pre WW2 screwback 327th Infantry  officer crossed rifles branch insignia recently posted.)

 

Kurt

@Glidertrooper Thank you ill check it out. It's worth a shot

@KurtA So I noticed you were talking about ww2 dui's being Sterling silver which I've heard alot when dealing with dui's. But I've seen authentic ww2 dui's that were brass, plastic, and all types of medals so im a little confused. Also the 325th dui I posted I thought was Sterling silver if not what type of material is it? Sorry for asking you guys so many questions I'm just eager to learn.

@Allan H. Thank you for going into so much detail about this piece. I ended up buying it and I always try to find out as much as i can about every piece i buy and i think you answered every question i have about this piece so thank you for that.

39 minutes ago, Brandonmlc said:

@KurtA So I noticed you were talking about ww2 dui's being Sterling silver which I've heard alot when dealing with dui's. But I've seen authentic ww2 dui's that were brass, plastic, and all types of medals so im a little confused. Also the 325th dui I posted I thought was Sterling silver if not what type of material is it? Sorry for asking you guys so many questions I'm just eager to learn.

During World War II, there were a lot of items that were put on a list that the government maintained that included strategic metals. Brass was one of those strategic metals. As a result of the onus to conserve brass, the army put out a directive that DUIs were not to be made and that none would be approved during the war. Even with the lack of approval, many units still wanted to have distinctive unit insignia made in order to encourage unit pride and esprit de corps. Many insignia manufacturers went to great lengths to provide alternative materials so that the insignia could be made (and sold).

 

A.H. Dondero, one of the largest manufacturers off distinctive insignia began to use sterling silver. Newcombe was one of the largest manufacturers in DUIs in sterling. Eby began to make DUIs out of steel. GEMSCO made some unit insignias out of plastic as did the firm of Whitehead and Hoag. Some companies still made insignia out of brass, though some moved to stamping the insignia out of much thinner gauges of metal to reduce the amount of material consumed. 

 

Many of the units that were formed in 1943 and later never had a DUI, or they had them made in theater. You will find examples made all over the world, from India, to Italy, to France, Australia, England and, beyond. After hostilities ended, Austria, Germany and Japan also had manufacturers looking for work and US dollars, so they made insignia too. You can find DUIs painted on small pieces of wood, coconuts, and other materials to include coins, etc. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Allan

I ran out of likes and I couldn’t buy any so I have to do it the old school way; I like Allan’s information.

Just to add a little more to the discussion.

Left is WW2.   Center and right are post WW2  (I'm guessing late 40's/early 50's based on being US-made,  no hallmarks and being of pot metal).  

Anytime I see the separately applied pin back assembly with the Newcombe hallmark and "sterling" I know for sure it is WW2 era production.

I would guess there is a screw back version of the 325th Infantry made in the 20's/30's, but I don't have one to show.

Over the years I got three 325th groupings from vets and they all had Newcomb DIs nothing else.

@KurtA What makes the middle one post war, the fact it doesn't have any markings?

7 hours ago, Brandonmlc said:

@KurtA What makes the middle one post war, the fact it doesn't have any markings?

I agree with Kurt A. that the middle example of the 325th DUI is post WWII, and this is simply based on the fac that the 325th DUIs in sterling were plentiful enough that they were still being issued during the occupation. Many collectors will classify an unmarked DUI as wartime saying that you can't prove that it isn't wartime. Those who have examined the items that the veterans came home with will tell you otherwise. 

 

If you look at the back of the pin back example and the clutch back example, there is really no difference other than the fasteners. It is up to the collector to classify items as they see fit, but if you are trying to stick with known wartime examples, I would stick with the Bowman and Newcombe examples.

 

Allan