Fausto Posted February 26, 2010 Share #1 Posted February 26, 2010 Hello! Always looking for oddities in magazine pouches variations I would share with you this Long 4-18 pouch that I got more than 30 years ago. Since, I got many Long pouches but I never encountered one like this. As you can see it is ALL made with the same thin web included the magazine pockets that in all magazine pouches are obviously made of more thick and strong web. I'm wondering if this is due a mistake or to a temporary lack of proper tissue. Btw, as you have surely noted, some manufacturers (Mills, Russell) used the same thick web for the whole pouch, whilst other (Long, Plant Brothers, Liberty Durgin, F.S.F., Chase) used till three type of web for the back/flap panel, the trimming and the magazine sleeves, something with various and amaizing shades of colours. The other pictures are of my two eagle snaps Mills: one O.D. December 1915, concentric rings belt snap, one kaky January 1917 with standard belt snap. Hope you enjoy. Fausto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fausto Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share #2 Posted February 26, 2010 Long: on the left the odd 4-18 and on the right one standard 7-18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fausto Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share #3 Posted February 26, 2010 and the two Mills: on the left December 1915 and on the right January 1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted February 26, 2010 Share #4 Posted February 26, 2010 Curious to see a kakhi web with an eagle snap, usually they are found on pea green stuff. BTW both snaps appear to be rimmed eagle snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fausto Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share #5 Posted February 26, 2010 Yes Arturo, it is curious: usually they are pea green. This could be - maybe - a transitional pouch just before the introduction of LTD snaps... And BTW, did you see before a LONG magazine pouch entirely made of so thin web? While writing these notes I reminded my two .45 ACP half moon clips pouches made by LONG: I checked them and, yes, they are totally made in the same thin web like the magazine pouch we are talking about. And also in this case a stronger tissue for the small pouches would be better: not that weight each loaded half moon, but very sharp... About these .45 ACP half moon clips pouches, up today I saw just the LONG made ones and (in few pictures...) those by Gregory & Read. As far as you know were they manufacured just by these two contractors? I would appreciate a lot any opinion about...Thanks! Fausto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted February 27, 2010 Share #6 Posted February 27, 2010 The khaki colour in January 1917 is real unusual but it could mean that Mills was in temporary shortage of OD dying agent which was imported from Germany and months later of course it became no more avalaible. If I remember well the plain snap on belts to fix mag pouch is called M1916 but, as well LTDs, first web gears to show these features are dated 1917. As regards half moon pouches, I had 7 or 8 of them all LONG marked and all in that thin web. Too bad I wasn't yet able to find a single Gregory and I suspect they are the only makers. I have my stuff in a distant cellar so I cannot check my Long mag pouch, but I see that thin web is a better choice for the revolver ammo pouch being less stiff than the usual one. I can imagine Long bought thin web just for revolver pouches then occasionally used the same for M1911 ammo pouches. After all stiff web is not a problem with box shaped steel magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Romantic Posted February 27, 2010 Share #7 Posted February 27, 2010 Fausto from what I've seen Long used the thinner weave material for the pistol magazine pockets made through May 1918. I have two of these- one is dated 4-18 and the other 5-18. Another unique feature of these pouches are the trim along the top. By the way your two eagle snap pouches are outstanding! Did you get the khaki one of ebay recently? I remember seeing one that came with a matching belt. I can't remember if the belt had an eagle snap or plain faced snap. I do remember that both the pouch and belt were marked Jan 1917 and the pouch fastener on the back and belt were the Carr fastener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted February 27, 2010 Share #8 Posted February 27, 2010 Mills were making equipment in the khaki at this time, from about December 1916 (maybe as early as November) Mills equipment can be found in this colour with eagle snaps. The colour and change of snaps were not adopted at the same time, the colour change came first followed a few months later with the change to LTD snaps. Hence Mills items in this olour with eagle snaps from this small time period can be found. More commonly seen are M1912 bandoleers with eagle snaps in this colour, in addition but slightly rarer M1912 cartridge belts with eagle snaps can be found in the same colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fausto Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share #9 Posted February 27, 2010 Thanks to you all for your help and for your accurate hints... And, yes Frankie, the khaki eagle snap magazine pouch came recently from U.S. eBay: it did cost a fortune, but I must admit that up to this day I had never seen a Mills magazine pouch of this style in so absolutely new and untouched condition. The older O.D. in the picture is also virtually new, but has the blackening on the buttons a little worn, the other one has like new buttons... And about the belt: stone mint and fresh, with Carr's button. Not that rare, but definitely a great 1912 Mills belt... Thanks again to you all. Fausto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Bibliotecario Posted February 27, 2010 Share #10 Posted February 27, 2010 I HATE posts like this--*laugh*-they make me work. I had to go out in the garage and get down a footlocker full of junk and rummage through it. I thought I had a pistol magazine pouch that was all canvas, but my Long pouch has a canvas flap and web bottom. But then I noticed my Long mounted rifle belt dated 9-18 has web flaps and canvas pockets. There seems to be no logic to this, which makes me think the manufacturer had a certain amount of latitude in choice of materials. I seem to recall the army relaxed their requirements during WW1 because there were too few specialized machines to manufacture the all-woven Mills products in the required quantities. Although I never saw any eagle snap pouches, thirty years ago one could buy brand new 1918 Mills and Long lift-the-dot pouchs for fifty to seventy five cents apiece--as many as one wanted--in US surplus stores. Of course the dollar was worth more then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted February 27, 2010 Share #11 Posted February 27, 2010 Although I never saw any eagle snap pouches, thirty years ago one could buy brand new 1918 Mills and Long lift-the-dot pouchs for fifty to seventy five cents apiece--as many as one wanted--in US surplus stores. Of course the dollar was worth more then... Hi Bib, I have the sensation even today those WWI pouches would be the cheapest piece of militaria around. They made ultrazillion of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinb Posted February 27, 2010 Share #12 Posted February 27, 2010 Yesterday when this post was started, I had never seen an all canvas pistol ammunition pouch. Then today at our military show, I find one for $5. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted February 28, 2010 Share #13 Posted February 28, 2010 Hi Robin, how much will cost a cup of coffee today by you? By us with that amount you can take three and half "espresso" small cups. BTW Fausto, if I understand well your khaki rimmed snaps has the M1916 regular snap for fixing it to the belt. If so I wonder if Mills had a surplus of old eagle snaps to recycle or if in January they were the very last officiallty adopted. My March 1917 Mills ctg mounted has ordinary LTDs and I always thought that the plain snap on belts would marry only LTDs mag pouches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fausto Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share #14 Posted February 28, 2010 Yes Arturo, my rimmed eagle knaki pouch has M1916 plain belt snap which obviously matches with plain belt buttons. And up today I tought like you that all rimmed eagle snaps would match only with eagle belt snaps. Maybe you're right and we have here one "transition" Mills pouch with early eagle snaps and new plain belt snap. Every day something new to learn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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