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Fantasy, repro or counterfeit EGA's


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looks like there's another on the market ,,, item 300246013999

 

This is the same seller gwhistorian who had that M1916 type officer service badge with separately wrapped wire a few weeks ago. We had some discussion about it. I saved pictures. It looked a lot better than this piece of ...............!!!!!!! Gotta be careful out there! Semper Fi....Bobgee

 

EBay_Strange_Off_WWI_Obv.jpgEBay_Strange_Off_WWI_Rev.jpg

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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This is the same seller gwhistorian who had that M1916 type officer service badge with separately wrapped wire a few weeks ago. We had some discussion about it. I saved pictures. It looked a lot better than this piece of ...............!!!!!!! Gotta be careful out there! Semper Fi....Bobgee

 

EBay_Strange_Off_WWI_Obv.jpgEBay_Strange_Off_WWI_Rev.jpg

 

...and as matter of fact has sold two copies of the service emblem this month:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=022

 

and

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=022

 

I might add, the pictures were of the identical emblem. s/f Darrell


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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  • 4 months later...

BUYER BEWARE: http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayIS...T&viewitem=

 

1225_1.jpg

 

Yet another of these gems has made an appearance on ebay today in a Live Auction, these Gooney repro's are described and discussed above and elsewhere in this thread. Folks ought to look very closely at the rest of his "stuff". s/f Darrell

 

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The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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  • 1 month later...

I have been reading the EGA Discussion and wanted to get the SME's (Subject Matter Experts) Opinion on these disks. think.gif Back ground I purchased them on eBay ermm.gif Yes on eBay recently of course guaranteed. So please let me know what you think thumbdown.gif or thumbsup.gif Thank you in advance one way or the other. If the scans are not good enough I will post some photos tomorrow.

Regards,

John

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Hello John, I am inclined to think your already in doubt about the originality of these... yes they are in fact counterfeits, fakes, or repro's... whichever your inclined to call them. These are modeled (copied) from the variety most EGA collectors call the Army/Navy Store variety. The front is somewhat convincing in its appearance, however, the reverse is the key... there were no pinback styles (that we know of today) made. Not to say that someday one may appear but highly doubtful some 90 years latter.

 

This particular gem first made its appearance on ebay some 18-24 months ago as part of a "discovery". Reportedly several dozen were found within an old coffee can in someone's celler... seem to recall Pa. They sold rapidly at first but the word got out as quickly. Now you see them being resold occasionally on ebay by the unwitting buyers and others who very well know what they are. thumbdown.gif

 

Look here for more info on the real deal: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=8096

 

s/f Darrell


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Yep, Darrell is 100% correct. This .... has been peddling this .... for a couple of years. I told him straight-out when they first appeared on ebay. I believe another collector has also. I've been blocked from buying from his auctions... boo hoo :lol: , or should I say pooh pooh :lol: Haven't these disks been discussed previously on this Forum? Send them back if you can.

 

S/F,

 

Chuck

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Guys,

Thank you for the information, what brought my query up was already reading the link tuefelhunde posted and comparing my disks to what I saw. Are you saying that there where no French Made Pin Back EGA"s as I have a French made pin back US Disc and have seen other Doughboy Pinback Disks attributed to French manufacture. I would assume that the first one acquired by the Marines after FDR's visit would possibly be pin back as well. Am I (OTF) Out There Flapping? pinch.gif

Thank you for your time and feedback in advance. :rolleyes:

Regards

John

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John, one should look back to older collections that have been in the hands of dedicated long term collectors like our own "Bobgee" for the clues. Those grouping being directly out of the hands of the vets - and into the collectors long term holdings for decades. As such, nothing like these has ever shown up. Further, one needs to look at the photographic holdings of dedicated period collectors, again - nothing of the sort has ever been seen. And finally the uniform regulations of the period can in no way be considered as ambiguous on the matter, the disc's that are shown and discussed in the ref. sec. thread were the only one's authorized for wear. Anything else would have been created by the vets for wear while at post war events, parades, reunions and such... as well as those folks who create these fakes, repro's and copies, to take your hard earned bucks. s/f Darrell


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Hi Darrell,

Thank you again for taking the time to re explain this to me, I am going to read the threads all over again so that the information becomes part of my brain back on what is real and false in the reals of WWI EGA's. Again thank you for your time. thumbsup.gif

V/R

John

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  • 4 weeks later...

I watched this for a week thinking it was a repop until this evening when I noticed the catch. It went a bit high. Something we all might kick ourselves over. Compared to what officer emblems bring from the 20s and 30s, this was a steal if original...

USMC_Old_Emblem_Front.jpg

USMC_Old_Emblem_Back.jpg

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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Honesty - I believe these to be an early "fantasy piece", perhaps 50-75 years old? Since Nov 1868 our emblem has been referred to as the Eagle, Globe and Anchor" and while we've seen allot of variation in numbers, simply nothing of this venue has been seen in period groups. My believe is this gem was created to fool people into thinking it was an Officer's Fatigue Cap Ornament which was placed over the top of a Gold Bullion cloth Anchor. Apparently the only known sample (which only remotely looks like this) is in the hands of the M.C. Museum - which came from the memorabilia of B. Gen. Henry Cochrane.

s/f Darrell


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Honesty - I believe these to be an early "fantasy piece", perhaps 50-75 years old? Since Nov 1868 our emblem has been referred to as the Eagle, Globe and Anchor" and while we've seen allot of variation in numbers, simply nothing of this venue has been seen in period groups. My believe is this gem was created to fool people into thinking it was an Officer's Fatigue Cap Ornament which was placed over the top of a Gold Bullion cloth Anchor. Apparently the only known sample (which only remotely looks like this) is in the hands of the M.C. Museum - which came from the memorabilia of B. Gen. Henry Cochrane.

s/f Darrell

 

 

What did the officers wear in the first days of EGA's? We have nothing in our EGA reference section and I can find nothing through a Google search.

 

My question would be: why would anyone have reason to fool someone else in regards to EGA's 50 to 75 years ago? Based on the workmanship of that piece, it looks like it would have been cheaper back then to get an original old EGA than to have that made up. It certainly is an interesting piece and even if it is not the "real thing" it still has a lot of value as a fantasy piece, if that's indeed what it is. I for one could see something like this being used on an officer's epaulets with a bullion eagle and anchor: certainly senior officers in the 19th century (and even into the 20th as judged by some of the WWII generals) had a lot of leeway as to decorating their uniforms.

 

This piece does point up the gap in early EGA knowledge.


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What did the officers wear in the first days of EGA's? We have nothing in our EGA reference section and I can find nothing through a Google search.

This piece does point up the gap in early EGA knowledge.

 

Actually the early years are well documented through the TM published by the Museums Division. It is available here in PDF for downloading and or reading. Although not well laid out and some gaps exist, it does document the early years satisfactory. Look under the year 1971 for title.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/HD/General/Publications.htm#2001

 

As for the piece above... it only marginally looks like a fatigue cap emblem and undress cap ornament. It creator made these simply to fool and or deceive. Here is a photo from the TM... in hands of the M.C. Museum - which came from Brig. Gen. Henry Cochrane. In 1877 a true one piece EGA for the Officers dress coats of the period was adopted. s/f Darrell

 

fatgue_cap_ornament.jpg


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Actually the early years are well documented through the TM published by the Museums Division. It is available here in PDF for downloading and or reading. Although not well laid out and some gaps exist, it does document the early years satisfactory. Look under the year 1971 for title.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/HD/General/Publications.htm#2001

 

Thanks! I never knew that booklet was available online. We probably should use images from that to fill in the gaps in our EGA reference area.


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  • 2 weeks later...
And yet another fantasy emblem from our favorite junk creators over at "usnusa" - "a fool and his monies are soon parted". It already has one bid thumbdown.gif

 

Ops... almost forgot about the final bid. Someone paid $352 @ final bid for this work of fantasy :blink:


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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  • 4 weeks later...

I normally don't do this, or feel the need to police the hobby, but I've had it with these "China Marine" pieces. I sent the following e-mail to the seller, with whom I have done much business with (name has been omitted).

 

XXX,

FYI, this EGA is a known reproduction. This is either one of the ones recently sold on E-bay or a new one. A few have been circulating on E-bay and east coast auctions recently. You may want to make an addition to the post.

Mike

 

We will see if anything changes.

Mike

Mike Manifor
Buying and selling Military Antiques. Specializing in hat and collar insignia (EGAs) of the USMC.
Top dollar paid.
info@eagleglobeandanchor.com
My website:www.eagleglobeandanchor.com

Visit my EGA reference section: http://www.eagleglobeandanchor.com/EGA_Reference_Section.html

 


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Response from the seller...

Dear Mike, Thank you for your email. I respect your opinion and you definitely know more about EGAs that I do. I go to a lot of gunshows and militaria shows on the east coast and I have never seen one of these before. The fur hat, ribbons and other uniforms in the lot looked authentic, albeit moth-eaten. I have never seen one of these on Ebay before and I look for EGAs all the time. Still, I cannot rule out the possibility that I have been scammed (that happened often when I was collecting Nazi medals and badges). I do not want to pass on bogus material. I will do some research and will make an addition to my Ebay description. By the way, I showed it to some collectors at the Springfield (Massachusetts) gun show last month and nobody indicated that they were bogus.

In any event, Thanks again for taking the time to bring this matter to my attention.

 

usmcaviator sends.....

Mike Manifor
Buying and selling Military Antiques. Specializing in hat and collar insignia (EGAs) of the USMC.
Top dollar paid.
info@eagleglobeandanchor.com
My website:www.eagleglobeandanchor.com

Visit my EGA reference section: http://www.eagleglobeandanchor.com/EGA_Reference_Section.html

 


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An "enlighten answer"? Mike, we both know these gems have been floating around the East Coast for at least five years I'm aware of... and the last place I would ever ask for qualified opinions would be a "gun show". The seller simply needs to pull the auction and chalk it up to experience!

s/f Darrell


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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  • 1 year later...

M-18...bought on a pith helmet at a gamble, when it arrived I saw this. hard to see, but some holes in the globe next to South America. tell-tale is on the rear

100_8152.JPG

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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rears

100_8153.JPG

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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M-18...bought on a pith helmet at a gamble, when it arrived I saw this. hard to see, but some holes in the globe next to South America. tell-tale is on the rear

Wow that thing is ugly :yucky: yet folks continue to buy them from the ebay repro guys... what a shame!


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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the roller may be legit?

 

the front details, esp the bird, are quite good

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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  • 3 months later...

another bad goonie on eBay... item 120650087035

_B9hTv_Q_Wk___KGrHqUOKj0EzLepD_iYBM6Dhf69_____3.jpg

_B9hUQ_g_Wk___KGrHqQOKkQEzJ49mJl9BM6DiuZe_____3.jpg

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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