Posting some WWI wings for a friend

[pfrost]

One of my friends (I'm trying to get him onto the forum) sent me pictures of these two WWI wings.  I gave him my opinion, but I thought he would like to see other people's opinion about them as well.  My friend, George, is a very nice fellow, and I think he would appreciate everyone's insight.

 

Thank you everyone

Patrick

[BHillen]

I’m sure your friend did not like your comments on these. 

[CliffP]

4 hours ago, BHillen said:

I’m sure your friend did not like your comments on these. 

 

Agree!

[pfrost]

Thanks guys. My friend is a real gentleman, like so many others on this forum.  Which is why I love the people and the discussions so much.  It would help him if we expanded the conversation just a bit. I also think it would help other collectors learn what so many of us had to do the hard way!

 

I am relating some of his discussion points.  First and foremost he looked through the fakes collection and didn't find anything that matched these.  Also he pointed out to me that the pilot wing has what looks like mothing, which if really was made by a moth, is very hard to fake,

 

To be transparent, I told him that this pattern of hand carved and had chased wings were relatively common (if rather uniquely made) and have been around for many years.  I bought one of these (the balloon pilot wing) many years ago at one of the Great Western Shows back when I was a novice collector.  I want to say that was in the late 1990's.

 

I believe that these wings originally came out of the Florida or Arizona area.  But I am probably wrong about that.  I also believe that it was this pattern of wing (hand cut "arrow head" like wing tips) and crudely chased fletching (made up of simple "V" shapes was described by either Duncan Campbell or Terry Morris, or both in their respective books.  It was always my understanding that they were responding the the multitude of requests by collectors to authenticate these wings.

 

At some point, some of these were given little plaques that said "Le Breve and Paris" on the back.  Le Breve (as best I can tell, never existed in WWI--currently Le Breve Paris is the name of a fashion company).  Even more wishful versions of these wings have had even more fantastical hallmarks added.

The balloon wings have the same feathering but often have much nice balloons.  Usually a round hemisphere with twisted or braided wire and a small box shaped gondola.  While not hard to make with standard tools, the balloons are usually very nice and much like balloons seen on other metal examples of this rating.  Still, other than slight variations in the wires and the "US" the wings clearly came from the same hand.

 

To my knowledge no vintage photos exist of these types of wings being worn exist.

 

The backing is also not really what was seen in other period wings. I am not 100% sure, but the backing is probably felt and not fabric.

 

I had heard that the "Million Dollar Collection" that came on the market (and which contained thousands of high end military collectables) had hundreds of these types of wings that were pulled from the auction. I tried to stop being the wings police many years ago. Its a hobby, its supposed to be fun, and my opinion is just that... an opinion. 

 

But be nice, please.  And as I told my friend, in many ways this is JUST MY OPINION.  I have made MANY mistakes in my life and in my collection. This is why I only collect what I like rather than what other people like.  No one bats a 1000 as they say.

 

P

[Scott C.]

I learned a ton about these type of wings from reviewing the pinned 'Fake, Fantasy & Reproduction Wing Examples' thread. Granted, that thread is currently 12 pages long and much of the sage advice is from Pat & Cliff, but in my opinion, it's a must read when it comes to these types of wings (and many others).

[pfrost]

Cliff is a real expert.  I always listen to EVERYTHING he says.  I don't always agree, but while I am not a smart man, I do know enough to know when to stop talking an listen to someone who knows much more than I do.

 

LOL, BTW do not conflate my propensity to pontificate with actual knowledge!  Who knows, there is always a chance that someone will find a box of these wings in a vault hidden in the floor of a French jewelry shop, with dated photos of the maker selling them to American pilots.

 

 

[Noelle]

I’m not sure what those are supposed to be, but this reminds me of people who collection knock-offs knowing they’re knock-offs.  An old friend of mine collected bootleg and knockoff Transformers (…”robots in disguise…” remember that show?), and while some were hilariously bad and some were meant to be the equivalent of a dollar store Barbie compared to a real Barbie, some were impressive, and even better made than the actual ones. 

 

I’m now thinking that an interesting collection could be wings known to be fakes.

 

But, @pfrost, I will correct one thing you said—felt is a type of fabric.  I’m a textile expert, though have largely stepped away.  We tend to think of felt as that cheaply made poly stuff that kids use for crafts, but that thicker wool that is used for coats is technically felted.  Wool/hair is made up of overlapping scales.  Yes, even our hair.  This is what causes our hair to mat up sometimes.  When those scales are scraped against each other, they lock together.  That’s what felting is.  The term “felt” is often associated with kids’ crafts, like acrylic paint, and so we’re more likely to hear terms like wool coating.  Textile terms are very, very, very misunderstood.  Like “silk and satin.” That’s like saying “flour and bread.” But I digress. Just a textile nerd thing. 😁

[BHillen]

I am the proud caretaker of a grand total of two USAAC wings, one bullion, one a (of course) Dallas Wing. That’s real ones. I have a few awful fakes, including one of the ‘Le Breve, Paris’ monstrosities, and a hideous Balloon Pilot Wing. As illustrated by CW Norma’s excellent ‘weekly wing of world war one’ series, most (many?) WW1 wings are jeweler made, and are exquisite in design and execution. Please tell your friend to forgive himself, but to not forget lessons learned. I hope this one was not too dear.

[Usa1918]

All that being said, they are kinda nice looking wings, compared to some of the atrocities out there.

 

Keith

[rathbonemuseum.com]

These are well understood fakes, made when folks did not have the Internet to rapidly compare.