USAEUR 1980-1985 Equipment (Wartime)

[Rakkasan187]

15 hours ago, Leroybrownwashere said:

I have a pair of the OD ones now that I got from a former air force vet who served in the late 80s. Was it customary to put the M9 detection tape on your sleeves and back during exercises in the Army? Is the tape just an Air Force thing? 

Leroy,

 

It was common practice in the Army to put the M9 tape on multiple spots on the MOPP suit in the Army. As an Infantryman we would place M9 tape on the right sleeve and left pant leg in order to get maximum coverage. Since we moved quite a bit in the different movement formations (Wedge, Overwatch and Bounding Overwatch) we were able to cover a fairly large portion of terrain and with multiple Soldiers wearing M9 tape in various areas of the MOPP suit we were able to determine if we were crossing or had crossed into a contaminated area.

 

Each Infantry Platoon had NBC teams and they all carried NBC equipment (M8 Chemical Detector and M42 Alarm, M256 Kit, IM93 Dosimeter, Chemical Detection Paper, NBC flag marker kits, and other equipment in addition to our regular infantry equipment). 

 

NBC training was at the top of the list in Berlin in addition to Combat in the Cities. The two went hand in hand as it was projected that the East Germans and Soviets would first open their offensive with a Chemical or Nuclear attack on Berlin so we rehearsed and trained in MOPP constantly, regardless of weather. 

 

MOPP gear donning and doffing, MOPP gear exchange, personal decontamination and equipment decontamination and other NBC tasks were a part of every field exercise. 

 

I was sent to NATO NBC School in Oberammergau, Germany in 1988 and was certified in Allied NBC operations. We trained with Allied Nations and their NBC equipment as well as familiarization with the Soviet Equipment and tactics. 

 

Leigh 

[Leroybrownwashere]

10 minutes ago, Rakkasan187 said:

Leroy,

 

It was common practice in the Army to put the M9 tape on multiple spots on the MOPP suit in the Army. As an Infantryman we would place M9 tape on the right sleeve and left pant leg in order to get maximum coverage. Since we moved quite a bit in the different movement formations (Wedge, Overwatch and Bounding Overwatch) we were able to cover a fairly large portion of terrain and with multiple Soldiers wearing M9 tape in various areas of the MOPP suit we were able to determine if we were crossing or had crossed into a contaminated area.

 

Each Infantry Platoon had NBC teams and they all carried NBC equipment (M8 Chemical Detector and M42 Alarm, M256 Kit, IM93 Dosimeter, Chemical Detection Paper, NBC flag marker kits, and other equipment in addition to our regular infantry equipment). 

 

NBC training was at the top of the list in Berlin in addition to Combat in the Cities. The two went hand in hand as it was projected that the East Germans and Soviets would first open their offensive with a Chemical or Nuclear attack on Berlin so we rehearsed and trained in MOPP constantly, regardless of weather. 

 

MOPP gear donning and doffing, MOPP gear exchange, personal decontamination and equipment decontamination and other NBC tasks were a part of every field exercise. 

 

I was sent to NATO NBC School in Oberammergau, Germany in 1988 and was certified in Allied NBC operations. We trained with Allied Nations and their NBC equipment as well as familiarization with the Soviet Equipment and tactics. 

 

Leigh 

Thank you for your input, I appreciate the help!

 

Man, Berlin would've been absolute hell on earth in WWIII. Luckily you were serving during a time when the diplomatic situation was stabilizing (with Gorbachev and his policies) and thus such a scenario was unlikely. Nonetheless it goes without saying that you made a tremendous sacrifice being there and I thank you for that.

[gunguy45]

E TRP, 2/11th ACR, '82-'83.

 

Uniforms were a mix of OD "pickle suit", & BDU, unless specified for some event.

At that time you were required to have 2 sets of BDUs, If you weren't issued them you had to buy them. I bought a BDU field jacket in '82, most guys didn't.

The only NBC suits I saw were OD.

I was a Tanker, so we had butt packs issued to us.

As a Tanker we had the M25 gas mask.

Most of us wore Tanker boots.

When in Mopp 4, we wore our overboots, either the green ones, or if you were lucky the old black ones with multiple buckles.

The green ones were crap.

 

My profile pic is me in '81, at FT Bliss TX, 3rd ACR, in MOPP gear.

[BEAST]

I was with 3rd ID from 86-89 and I do not remember seeing the woodland MOPP suites until Desert Shield/Storm.  Of course, they may have been in our go-to-war stock as opposed to what we wore for training.

 

 

Don't forget your Graf parka!

[Leroybrownwashere]

17 minutes ago, gunguy45 said:

E TRP, 2/11th ACR, '82-'83.

 

Uniforms were a mix of OD "pickle suit", & BDU, unless specified for some event.

At that time you were required to have 2 sets of BDUs, If you weren't issued them you had to buy them. I bought a BDU field jacket in '82, most guys didn't.

The only NBC suits I saw were OD.

I was a Tanker, so we had butt packs issued to us.

As a Tanker we had the M25 gas mask.

Most of us wore Tanker boots.

When in Mopp 4, we wore our overboots, either the green ones, or if you were lucky the old black ones with multiple buckles.

The green ones were crap.

 

My profile pic is me in '81, at FT Bliss TX, 3rd ACR, in MOPP gear.

I appreciate the information, and I was wondering if you also had to wear the M9 detection tape on your suit? 

 

Looks super exhausting! 

[Rakkasan187]

4 hours ago, Leroybrownwashere said:

Thank you for your input, I appreciate the help!

 

Man, Berlin would've been absolute hell on earth in WWIII. Luckily you were serving during a time when the diplomatic situation was stabilizing (with Gorbachev and his policies) and thus such a scenario was unlikely. Nonetheless it goes without saying that you made a tremendous sacrifice being there and I thank you for that.

Berlin was not a pushover like many thought and we did have our share of incidents.. The Labelle Discothèque bombing and other events where Berlin Soldiers were killed. A fellow Soldier in my Battalion was killed going home for Christmas on the plane that crashed in Lockerbie, Scotland as a result of a terror bombing, PAN AM Flight 103. We were in the middle of a lot of protests and world changing events to include the fall of the Berlin Wall.. Was there for most of these headline events...

 

Leigh 

[Leroybrownwashere]

5 hours ago, BEAST said:

I was with 3rd ID from 86-89 and I do not remember seeing the woodland MOPP suites until Desert Shield/Storm.  Of course, they may have been in our go-to-war stock as opposed to what we wore for training.

 

 

Don't forget your Graf parka!

That makes sense...thanks! 

 

Ah yes, well I am assembling a summer kit so winter gear is not on my priority for the time being. I appreciate it though!

[Leroybrownwashere]

1 hour ago, Rakkasan187 said:

Berlin was not a pushover like many thought and we did have our share of incidents.. The Labelle Discothèque bombing and other events where Berlin Soldiers were killed. A fellow Soldier in my Battalion was killed going home for Christmas on the plane that crashed in Lockerbie, Scotland as a result of a terror bombing, PAN AM Flight 103. We were in the middle of a lot of protests and world changing events to include the fall of the Berlin Wall.. Was there for most of these headline events...

 

Leigh 

Oh, man that's awful. Yeah it was a crazy time to be in Berlin

[Crap Game]

I was assigned to Berlin Brigade twice, first time, Feb 89 to Dec 90 (4th Bn was deactivated), then went back Oct 92 to June 94 (deactivated 6th Bn, deployed to Macedonia as UNPROFOR Task Force Cougar Operation Able-Sentry )  

 

We had ALICE LC1/LC2 gear, issued a Medium Ruck with Frame, the ruck packed according to the Brigade Packing List.  I bought my own Large Ruck at Clothing Sales for $30 because I was a 81mm Mortar Maggot, we had to hump the Brigade Packing List plus the M29A1 (M252 2nd tour) mortar system broken down and ammunition.   We were issued an OD MOPP suit that was used for training, the black rubber gloves, white cotton liners (if you were lucky) and the lace up universal sized NBC boots.     Our Company NBC section issued each Soldier another set of MOPP Gear that we nicknamed the "ice pack" because it was all kept packaged in a clear heavy duty trash bag, only to be opened in case of war.  So it was kept in the bottom of the wall locker unless ordered otherwise.  In it was a new in package MOPP suit according to uniform size, 2 pairs of black rubber NBC gloves 2 pairs of white cotton glove lines, 2 pairs of the universal NBC boots, 2 sets of gold ringed M17 protective mask (not gas mask!) cheek filters, an extra green rubber M17 mask hood, M258A1 Personal Decontamination Kit.  There may have been extra M17 outer lens covers but I'm not sure if there were the Atropine Auto-Injector nerve anti-dote kits in the bag or not.

 

MOPP1: Mask available in carrier, suit  and boots kept in easy access (top of your rucksack).  The black rubber gloves and cotton liners I usually kept stowed in the suit trouser thigh pockets.

MOPP2: Suit worn, partially unzipped, collar unsnapped; Mask available in carrier, boots within easy access

MOPP3: Mask worn, suit fully zipped, collar snapped, ankle strings tied overtop overboots (some would plan to use 100mph tape to secure the trouser cuff to the boots); gloves kept in easy access (trouser thigh pockets in my case)

MOPP4: Mask worn, suit worn, overboots, and glove liners

 

M9 Detection Paper, I remember an SOP being it being applied to one ankle area, one forearm, one upper arm.  May have been off hand side forearm and handed side ankle and bicep area, logic being it was within peripheral vision while holding your M16A2 Rifle in firing position.

 

Rumor was the M258A1 decon kit would burn off 2 layers of skin.  I don't know how accurate that is.

 

We trained regularly in NBC defense, using the alcohol based training decon wipes (those were also good for removing camo face paint).   I seem to recall one of the SOPs was to be prepared to be hit by Soviet blood agent first, which was alleged to damage your M17 filters so you would have to change them (which was a PITA) then followed up by persistant nerve agent (get "slimed") during the time you'd be displacing to a uncontiminated area and changing out filters.

 

Buttpacks:  I had an OD7 nylon one I bought for $6 at Clothing Sales as a Reservist before going on active duty.    I used it on the LBE in Light Infantry.  When I was Mechanized Mortars (first tour in Berlin 81mm M125A2 13ton armored Mortar Carriers! Only Mech in the 101st Airborne Division!), I kept my poncho liner inside, my ECWCS goretex parka strapped to the bottom, I would hang the buttpack on the M19 Infrared Periscope in the driver's hole for quick access to snacks, hygiene equipment, rain gear and woobie for cat naps.   Still have it.   I think I got the 1" Fastex Buckles at REI, the OD flag I bought at Clothing Sales and the cat eyes (still hold a "charge")  are the luminous engineer tape. I can't remember when I modified it with snap hooks for LBV-88.

[Leroybrownwashere]

9 hours ago, Crap Game said:

I was assigned to Berlin Brigade twice, first time, Feb 89 to Dec 90 (4th Bn was deactivated), then went back Oct 92 to June 94 (deactivated 6th Bn, deployed to Macedonia as UNPROFOR Task Force Cougar Operation Able-Sentry )  

 

We had ALICE LC1/LC2 gear, issued a Medium Ruck with Frame, the ruck packed according to the Brigade Packing List.  I bought my own Large Ruck at Clothing Sales for $30 because I was a 81mm Mortar Maggot, we had to hump the Brigade Packing List plus the M29A1 (M252 2nd tour) mortar system broken down and ammunition.   We were issued an OD MOPP suit that was used for training, the black rubber gloves, white cotton liners (if you were lucky) and the lace up universal sized NBC boots.     Our Company NBC section issued each Soldier another set of MOPP Gear that we nicknamed the "ice pack" because it was all kept packaged in a clear heavy duty trash bag, only to be opened in case of war.  So it was kept in the bottom of the wall locker unless ordered otherwise.  In it was a new in package MOPP suit according to uniform size, 2 pairs of black rubber NBC gloves 2 pairs of white cotton glove lines, 2 pairs of the universal NBC boots, 2 sets of gold ringed M17 protective mask (not gas mask!) cheek filters, an extra green rubber M17 mask hood, M258A1 Personal Decontamination Kit.  There may have been extra M17 outer lens covers but I'm not sure if there were the Atropine Auto-Injector nerve anti-dote kits in the bag or not.

 

MOPP1: Mask available in carrier, suit  and boots kept in easy access (top of your rucksack).  The black rubber gloves and cotton liners I usually kept stowed in the suit trouser thigh pockets.

MOPP2: Suit worn, partially unzipped, collar unsnapped; Mask available in carrier, boots within easy access

MOPP3: Mask worn, suit fully zipped, collar snapped, ankle strings tied overtop overboots (some would plan to use 100mph tape to secure the trouser cuff to the boots); gloves kept in easy access (trouser thigh pockets in my case)

MOPP4: Mask worn, suit worn, overboots, and glove liners

 

M9 Detection Paper, I remember an SOP being it being applied to one ankle area, one forearm, one upper arm.  May have been off hand side forearm and handed side ankle and bicep area, logic being it was within peripheral vision while holding your M16A2 Rifle in firing position.

 

Rumor was the M258A1 decon kit would burn off 2 layers of skin.  I don't know how accurate that is.

 

We trained regularly in NBC defense, using the alcohol based training decon wipes (those were also good for removing camo face paint).   I seem to recall one of the SOPs was to be prepared to be hit by Soviet blood agent first, which was alleged to damage your M17 filters so you would have to change them (which was a PITA) then followed up by persistant nerve agent (get "slimed") during the time you'd be displacing to a uncontiminated area and changing out filters.

 

Buttpacks:  I had an OD7 nylon one I bought for $6 at Clothing Sales as a Reservist before going on active duty.    I used it on the LBE in Light Infantry.  When I was Mechanized Mortars (first tour in Berlin 81mm M125A2 13ton armored Mortar Carriers! Only Mech in the 101st Airborne Division!), I kept my poncho liner inside, my ECWCS goretex parka strapped to the bottom, I would hang the buttpack on the M19 Infrared Periscope in the driver's hole for quick access to snacks, hygiene equipment, rain gear and woobie for cat naps.   Still have it.   I think I got the 1" Fastex Buckles at REI, the OD flag I bought at Clothing Sales and the cat eyes (still hold a "charge")  are the luminous engineer tape. I can't remember when I modified it with snap hooks for LBV-88.

Many thanks for the information! I am guessing the ruck would normally be carried in a nearby vic like an m113? I'm debating whether or not I should wear that for MOPP 1. My impression kit is for the 11th acr which had a slightly different mission than you did but I can see lots of similarities. I am also not sure if the tape was used earlier on. 

[Vanderbilt]

39 minutes ago, Leroybrownwashere said:

Many thanks for the information! I am guessing the ruck would normally be carried in a nearby vic like an m113? I'm debating whether or not I should wear that for MOPP 1. My impression kit is for the 11th acr which had a slightly different mission than you did but I can see lots of similarities. I am also not sure if the tape was used earlier on. 

.....you say you're doing the 11th ACR. Take this photo with a grain of salt. This was 2nd plt, Fox Troop, 2/11 ACR, circa 1982. We finished with excersizes at Graf and were clowning around. If you dig in a bit, you can see the variety of clothing and equipment. FWIW, I'm the big goof out front in BDU's and a head rag!

[Vanderbilt]

....not very good pictures but this was some stuff that came home with me. My son didn't use up playing Army!

[Leroybrownwashere]

1 hour ago, Vanderbilt said:

.....you say you're doing the 11th ACR. Take this photo with a grain of salt. This was 2nd plt, Fox Troop, 2/11 ACR, circa 1982. We finished with excersizes at Graf and were clowning around. If you dig in a bit, you can see the variety of clothing and equipment. FWIW, I'm the big goof out front in BDU's and a head rag!

I love the photo, and I can see some kit for reference. Thank you again

[Leroybrownwashere]

I do have another question for al 

5 hours ago, Vanderbilt said:

.....you say you're doing the 11th ACR. Take this photo with a grain of salt. This was 2nd plt, Fox Troop, 2/11 ACR, circa 1982. We finished with excersizes at Graf and were clowning around. If you dig in a bit, you can see the variety of clothing and equipment. FWIW, I'm the big goof out front in BDU's and a head rag!

One more thing....Were you issued face paint and was it worn in training or did you guys just use dirt on your faces? 

[sgtpeter]

We were issued the tube camo sticks (loam & green), but you had to use a Bic lighter to soften up for proper application. A lot of guys bought the camo compacts as they were much easier to use. Sometimes we used them during training but mostly not. During my deployments to the middle east, we never saw or used camo sticks or compacts.

[Vanderbilt]

1 hour ago, Leroybrownwashere said:

I do have another question for al 

One more thing....Were you issued face paint and was it worn in training or did you guys just use dirt on your faces? 

....hmmm, yes, we had face paint, found this in a junk box recently. I know we did on some foot exercises but not that often. Honestly, I remember using it in Texas a lot more when I was in the 1st Cav. I was in a Combat Support Company with Infantry. We were on the ground a lot more. In Europe, we were a screen for the tanks or forward observers.  We didn't do near as much in the way of infantry tactics. Except when we were on the border. You had to do foot patrols on the trace. We didn't go out of our way to announce our presence but you didn't want to start an incident either, lol. So, it really depended on the mission.

[Leroybrownwashere]

18 minutes ago, sgtpeter said:

We were issued the tube camo sticks (loam & green), but you had to use a Bic lighter to soften up for proper application. A lot of guys bought the camo compacts as they were much easier to use. Sometimes we used them during training but mostly not. During my deployments to the middle east, we never saw or used camo sticks or compacts.

Okay, thanks!

[Leroybrownwashere]

15 minutes ago, Vanderbilt said:

....hmmm, yes, we had face paint, found this in a junk box recently. I know we did on some foot exercises but not that often. Honestly, I remember using it in Texas a lot more when I was in the 1st Cav. I was in a Combat Support Company with Infantry. We were on the ground a lot more. In Europe, we were a screen for the tanks or forward observers.  We didn't do near as much in the way of infantry tactics. Except when we were on the border. You had to do foot patrols on the trace. We didn't go out of our way to announce our presence but you didn't want to start an incident either, lol. So, it really depended on the mission.

That's the one! I'm doing reenactment photos of WWIII in Germany, so I'll do some with and without the camo. I'd assume it would be worn when fighting at night or in a well concealed fighting position. Again, thanks for the help

[Edelweisse]

I’m surprised not many folks have posted pictures especially since everyone was into either photography or stereo systems at that time in USAREUR & USAFE…as I recall.  I was a Dept Army Civilian (DAC) in Giessen and Zweibruecken and then HQ VII Corps from 1980-90.  REFORGER

[gwb123]

As the stated time frame was from 1980 to 1985, I am surprised no one has mentioned the UK issued suits that were issued as a stopgap while supplies of US made olive green suits were built up.  

 

I was in the 708th Maintenance Battalion, 1980 to 1983.  As I recall this is what we were issued for training purposes.  They were more of a forest green, and they had a large pocket across the front.

 

As mentioned, they were comfortable in the winter, but most definitely not in the summer time.  A lot of the troops ignored instructions not to launder them and literally washed the charcoal out of them.  As I understood it, it took about three cycles to remove the charcoal completely.  

 

These photos came from Exercise Capstone I in the winter of 1980 to 1981, which was notable for record breaking snow falls.

 

Good times. 

 

[gunguy45]

On 7/14/2022 at 12:01 PM, Leroybrownwashere said:

I appreciate the information, and I was wondering if you also had to wear the M9 detection tape on your suit? 

 

Looks super exhausting! 

I don't remember the tape.

[Vanderbilt]

2 hours ago, gunguy45 said:

I don't remember the tape.

.....yeah, now that this has been mentioned. My addled brain has a thought rattling around about some kind of detection method. I do recall we had something that could tell you if you had been exposed to radiation or chemicals and what the dosage level was? That was nearly 40 years ago. 

[Vanderbilt]

.....just for your perusal, here's one of my old field jackets from my time with the 2/11. Also still have my white engineer glove shells which some of us wore in place of the issue black ones. The jacket also has the patches from a 1982 gunnery excersize and the second Warsteed. 

[gunguy45]

Vanderbilt, I wore the engineer gloves too. I dyed them black. They were much heavier, & didn't get beat up as fast.

You were in Fox, I was Echo, If I remember correctly we were in the same building. I had an apartment off post, by the Bahnhof.

I was on Warsteed II also.

The Platoon Battle Run at Graf was a great time. I got to fire 4 Service Heat rounds from the M60A3.

[gunguy45]

The photo below is from Wildflicken, '82.

E Trp. 2/11ACR, 1st Plt. NCO's.

All are wearing the much hated "Pile cap"

Far right, & 2nd from left have coveralls on. 

Far right has tanker boots, 2nd from right(me) has 5 buckle overshoes, next jump boots, and far left looks like issue "crute" boots.

I am wearing Field pants, & wool shirt.

 

That's pretty much what we wore on tanks, in the field, in winter, unless we had to go MOPP.

 

As you can see, nothing was "standard" in the field.