Jump to content

Vietnam Navy SEAL's


Recommended Posts

Here is some constructive advice and some kudos.

 

Just for the record, I've got no dog in this fight or anyone's honor to preserve. It's a minor technicality. I do like it that your point man is using an A1, SEALS had a large distribution of those despite the availability of the XM177. Those were more common among many a team. I also think it's good you have a nice distribution of original or replacement gear. I good set of repro Golden Tigers age just like the real ones that costs hundreds.

 

Army teams did gear up in CISO made black uniforms with AK chest rigs and carry AKs on snatch missions. This saved lives to look like the enemy on more than one occassion but it was also for missions in no-mans land where they also carried nothing to identify themselves as US. I haven't heard of SEALS doing this type of operation in Laos or Cambodia but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. ermm.gif

 

Numbah 10 - About the Thompson, the reason you wont find wide spread photographs of it's use during Vietnam is because it was replaced by the M3 Grease gun, called the Greaser but more so than that, why would you want your team to field mostly 5.56 and have an odd ball with a .45 out there who 1. May run out of ammo for said oddity 2. cannot share a magazine or consolidate ammo if you run out because he decided he needed a Thompson on a mission where most are carrying A1s or XM177E1 or a Stoner. It's a logic thing...think man, think tactical here. think.gif

 

Numbah 10 x 2 - You dont wear googles in the field. Not only would you get glare off them they aren't necessary...you need an unobstructed field of view. Unless of course the thought of signal beacons to the enemy appeals to you because you are so hungry for killing you advertise when your in the boonies. w00t.gif

 

Numbah 10x3 - The reason Boonies were worn is so you can hear better. No steel lids. If your gonna die, so be it you volunteered for this insanity but there is nothing like a helmet hitting against a tree of falling off your head to give you and your soon to be skeleton crew away. The Navy picture that was shared of the guy in an M1 with a Thompson and a flak vest wading in the good forsaken muck and brown water is what we call 'Hollywood'. thumbdown.gif

 

At the end of the day you have to decide if your just having a hilariously good time together pulling a field op and enjoying the fact that thank god this isn't real, you can order pizza with your artillery strike and head tripping to the Rolling Stones Paint it Black is suitable time travel..or if you really truly want total authenticity to include unit physical fitness standards and qualifying Airborne for one at a civilian jump school...though they wont let you combat jump at 1500 ft.

 

Thanks for sharing your pics of your 'bush time'. Beware of Claymores in the trees. Charlie is one sneaky Mutha! :unsure:

 

Boonie Rat, out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
And how does a picture of a SOG recon team relate with a SEAL squad or platoon?

 

Let me connect the dots for you Spike. AK chest rig, AK, CISO black boonie...SEALs.....connected yet?

post-2582-1232219968.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, yeah, some guys used AK's, but not a whole squad or platoon of SEALs. Showing a pic of a recon team really doesn't help the argument, 2 different units, 2 different missions and 2 different operating areas. As far as the bottom pic, the guy on the right is a SEAL and the pictures in that issue of SOF don't show a SEAL squad or platoon. Those guys are a SCT, only a couple of the guys in the large group pic are SEALs that I know of and I know the ID of both.

You and the other guy are on a mission to prove some point. I have pictures that have never seen by the public, from SEALs personal photo albums. In 95% of the pictures, all the SEALs are using Stoners, chopped down M60s, M16s, alot of times with XM148s or later on, M203s and XM177 E2's, again, some with the 148 and later in the war, M203s. Some SEAL 2 guys even used the H&K G3 and one SEAL in 1968 used a carbine version of the Stoner. My main focus on SEALs in the 69-71 years and the advisory years but I have a alot of of pictures of the early years as well. I do have pictures of individual SEALs that DID carry AK's, these were sometimes pointmen but I have pics of 2 platoon commanders in 1971 that like to carry the AK. Sometimes the VN's working with SEALs (KCS, PRU and LDNN) carried an AK but generally, as far as SEALs go, AKs weren't used all that much. Again, I'm goin' by pictures that no one has access to. But showing a picture of an RT to make a point about AK47 use in this case really doesn't make any sense. And if you have looked at any of the really cool SOG photo books, especially Jason Hardy's book, more often than not, the SOG teams carried XM177 E2's from the mid part of the war onward. And yes, they also used M16's, Swedish Ks and AKs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
vintageproductions

Wow, what started as a simple group of photos, of guys having fun can sure turn quickly.

 

I have to agree with Spike that the SEAL story does sound a bit fishy. The only time I have ever heard of a Marine being with SEALs is at Naval Advisory Group, but he would still be a Marine, not a SEAL. He would also have Naval rank, not Marine rank. Maybe he was attached to a team for some unknown reason, but that wouldn't make him a SEAL. The other possibility is maybe he was EOD and was attached to a UDT team, but again sounds funny. I can't tell you how many times in 30 years of collecting Vietnam items, I have met Special Forces team members. Probably 2% of the guys who claimed to be SF, ever turned out to be SF. When quizzed hard, they would make vague references, or show doctored up paperwork, as to what they did. But, hey, if it made them feel better to live a "Walter Mitty" lifestyle good for them. I just hated them claiming they were something they weren't. It would only take, less then one evening for Spike to search his name, and you would know. There are only two things that could happen out of this search.1. Your friends name pops up and there is no doubt to what he says and what he did or #2, you find out your friend may have not remembered the exact events properly. I met a guy one time at a friends business dinner that claimed to be a SEAL. He even made sure he had a souvenir type Team 2 ball cap. My friend introduced us, and told the "SEAL" my interest in militaria. This guy prodeeded in spinning some really good stories. He must have went on for about a hour telling me everything. Then I started the name dropping of SEALS, which this guy couldn't recognize any of the names. Then about five minutes later, it kicked in. In knew some of his stories sounded vagurly familar. Then I realized why so. Mr SEAL had just told me a bunch of excerpts from almost every Tom Clancy novel.

 

As per the photo of RT Maine carrying AK-47's. It is widely know in print and photographs that Special Forces Recon Teams carried AK's. Not the same for SEALS. Spike makes a great point about the different areas and different missions these two units opearted in. Yes, there are numerous photos of a single SEAL carrying a AK, but there are also numerous photos, showing Teams, and everyone in the image are carrying different weapons.

 

Lastly, if it sounds like I am defending Spike, it is because I am. I have known him for close to twenty years, and have never met anyone more devoted to the subject of SEALS in Vietnam. He is as hardcore in this subject as Jason Hardy is to SOG. On a few rare occasions he has brought down some of his photo albums to show me. These are photos straight from veterans. There are photos in these albums that would blow the average collector right out of the water. The odd uniforms, gear , weapons, etc.If I hadn't seen some of the photo's personally, I never would have believed them. To some he comes across a bit harsh, but he is someone who has spent a large portion of his life to this specific subject. If he told me something about a SEAL, I would take it to the bank, as I know it would be right on. He has had some of the SEAL / UDT museums come to him for research and help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I second Bob on Spike defense. Bob introduced me to Spike and we get along at once. I had the chance to visit Spike at his place two or three times and I had the privilege to see his uniforms and coats and some of his pictures and slides.

If Spike says something about UDT/SEAL in Vietnam, he knows what he's talking about and he has some some serious back up to prove it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
You and the other guy are on a mission to prove some point. I have pictures that have never seen by the public, from SEALs personal photo albums.

 

Jebus! What gives around here? Did I pee in someones cornflakes or something?

 

Actually no, Im not out to 'prove' anything other than there is photographic evidence that supports units going out that way, easily learned from any of the SOG books available from Linderer or others, as stated the Marine Captain is off in many, many areas as has been pointed out. I do know there was a 9th ID LRRP attached to SEALS as a sniper...so the Army attached personnel but the Marines didnt? The story doesn't mesh but it isn't totally nonplausible. I went through Airborne school with three Marine Force Recon guys in my stick. I also had an Air Force FO attached to my weapons squad during actual live fire. Later on in Scouts we were crosstrained by qualified snipers and Ranger personnel and on two separate occasions by Division LRSD. I posted a SOG RT team to illustrate that it was indeed done but at a totally different unit and organizational composition not to mention mention SOE. It wasnt to frag Spike so there is no need to call for fire here. I also posted a SEAL SOF cover showing a similar mix of Chicom - CISO uniform items to show they too mixed gear though every photo I have gleaned of SEALS shows it was never as a full squad or at platoon strength as stated by Spike. This was for the benefit of the re-enactors not to keyboard wrestle anyone.

 

OK, so the others guys neighbor is a wanna be. Read this line I wrote - "Just for the record, I've got no dog in this fight or anyone's honor to preserve" I then proceeded to offer some of my own tactical knowledge passed onto me by real guys who are harder than a woodpeckers lips so that when these guys doing an impression are out there, they look the part. Remember taping down items, blacking out anything shiney and never using slings? I do.

 

The thread is about re-enactors and getting them on track to an overall better impression.

 

I dont get the defensive fire.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the spirit of why I even responded to this thread in the first place let me offer this constructive criticism for this one image alone in the hope it will get you guys some respect:

 

All loose straps are taped down, all of them, that goes for the dingle dangle on the web gear to boot snake laces hanging out. And unblouse your boots. SEALS or any self respecting high speed individual is not afraid of water or creepie crawlies but more importantly it prevents circulation when kneeling or otherwise conducting movement.

 

Cut your boonie cord strap, you don't need it and don't ever wear it down loose around your neck and head. One hard yank on that and I own you. Or a wait a minute vine will.

 

Exercise trigger discipline. You can be as hard as John Holmes without an accidental discharge.

 

Loose the alice pack frame. It is metal, It will make noise and besides anyone who has ever carried that damn thing on active duty knows it and hates it with extreme prejudice.

 

Pocket the time piece. It is so very nice and shiney in addition to it's time keeping skill.

 

If your gonna roll em up, camo your arms. They did.

 

And never, ever, walk on trails!! If your gonna halt movement move off but I know in this case you were getting ready for that L shaped ambush you had planned for Victor Charles when the point man decided it was a perfect time to turn around for a photo op. jk

 

It takes field time to get it down. Consider it active every time you are out there and your mind will switch on. Train.

 

Thank you and best of luck guys.

post-2582-1232231123.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, if the Moderator vouches for Spike and this has got so deep, my friend is John Blacklidge, who went thru Seal Class #131 in 1973. He was first assigned to Marine Recon in 1969 and then went thru UDT and SEAL training. He returned on TDS for one tour with the SEALs in the Delta in 1973, mainly. John then returned to Marine Recon where he stayed until the war closed down and they sent him back to school. I do know that he was hit several times during his tours, so there had to be some disruptions. I'm not sure why anyone would fake the scars that he has. I didn't ask him any more details as to what his rank was or when, but he resigned as a Major in the Marine Corp. Understand, John could care less about proving to anyone his history. John is still alive and as a favor, please don't bother him about any of this. No wonder veterans don't want to talk about their experiences.

 

My point was/is that I don't know who Spike is, what's his name or even what country he lives in. But hey, if he is the designated expert on this forum, so be it. I agree with snake, it was about some photos of reenactors. Man this pond is getting small.

 

Snake, the biggest patrol rule, no deodorant. I learned that in Ranger School at Benning in 1967.

 

Bill Eoff

 

P.S. I've also met Tom Clancy and he's one SOB. I was in a reception in D.C. where we had to pull him and J.R. Thompson apart after he told JR that JR knew nothing about the space industry. JR was NASA Marshall Center Director at the time. Clancy started out selling real estate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wleoff. Thanks for providing the name and other info. No need to look up the name based on the info you gave. There was no SEAL class #131 in 1973. BUD/S class #'s were still in the double digits in 1973 (rough estimation, classes #69-#73)and though I can't really know for sure at this point, class 131 probably would have graduated sometime way after the VN war, maybe around 1981-1982 or maybe later, my class rosters stop at #65 and after VN I don't know how many classes were being trained within any given year so I would have to try and find out thru other sources, my research pretty much stops when VN ended. BUD/S class 60 was the last class that had a grad. go to VN as a SEAL. As far as your friend operating in the Delta with the SEALs in 73, not likely as by early 1973, most, if not all active SEALs, who would have been strictly in an advisory role, were sent back home around March 73. The last direct action platoons were sent home in Dec. 1971, the last platoon being Mike plt at Ben Luc. The only SEALs left in country during the years 1972/73 would have been LDNN advisors and by early 73, LDNN ops with US SEAL advisors had pretty much wound down.

 

I'm not the "designated expert", I'm just a guy, who lives in the Los Angeles area BTW, that has done alot of research, collected quite alot of photos and slides as well alot of paperwork and documentation and talked with alot of VN era SEALs. Your friend may have been in Marine Recon and sometimes they did work together, but it wasn't the norm. Sorry, I just don't buy it that your friend was a SEAL during VN based on the class number and timeline you provided.

Link to post
Share on other sites
surplus sammy

Gee tigerman !

That did start a shoot out................

 

Back to your pics,SEAL Team aside......

Well done !

An assorted effort from a group of guys out to get in to the scene.

You really just need to standardise you group in one direction.

All have flaks or none sort of thing,all similar uniforms and kit always looks better.

 

polish.jpg

How all the same kit looks.

 

Some of the Polish Reenactors,which I believe are top notch,all wear the same thing.

They end up looking period.

 

Just go for the LRRP/Ranger look,you are closer to that in most pics.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at a gun show one time and saw a M1903 rifle sitting for sale, the man behind the table said he bought it from a Marine who said he captured it in VN, said he found it leaning on a tree. Tell you what. I don't care what I was issued, if I got in trouble and had the hoice of fighting my way out with a knife for the sake of history or using a Thompson. I'd go with the Thompson, heck, who knows. Like a vet told me one time. "One story or movie about Vietnam to one man who was there is total crap, to another it is the way it was. Depending on where you were, when you was there, and what unit you was with, everyone has a different story."

Link to post
Share on other sites

"I dont get the defensive fire."

 

Maybe you'll remember this little condescending remark of yours....

 

"Let me connect the dots for you Spike. AK chest rig, AK, CISO black boonie...SEALs.....connected yet?"

 

This sentence came off pretty arrogant, hence my comment about "proving a point". Seemed to me and a few others like you were out to prove your point.

 

As far as the term "CISO", ENOUGH.....jeeze, not every single black boonie hat and PJs were made by CISO, there were 100's if not 1000's of tailors all thru VN that could and would make hats and uniforms outta any material, including black cotton. CISO seems to be the new little catch phrase that guys latch onto to inaccurately describe any black clothing/hats, mainly used to sex up something for sale to make it something that it's not, WITHOUT any proof. Kind of along the lines of quoting Johnson's silly names and descriptions of tiger stripes verbatim.

 

To be honest, I doubt that a 9th ID LRRP/sniper would be actively attatched to a SEAL platoon, he MAY have gone on a few op's but as far as being a member of a platoon, no way. The only guys that actually did work with SEALs in VN were Australian SAS and even that was for short periods of time. SEALs in turn would go out on SAS ops, cross training if you will and the was an exchange program for awhile.

 

Let's get this back on track........

Link to post
Share on other sites

Spike,I now know who to ask if I have a SEAL related question,I am facinated with Frogmen&SEALs to the present day,my first read was by Mike Walsh,which I still occasionally pick up and randomly read a chapter or two,just wanted to step in quickly w/my reply,Thanks..and to others in the discussion,well stated opinions and thanks for the history lessons.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Spike in the interest of enlightenment and for the sheer laughter of it, count to CISO until you feel better.

 

You might not have this in your Navy records which is understandable. Sometimes when you go to bed with the other branch, you don't want anyone to know about it.

 

"In January 1968, some 9th Division teams joined with US Navy SEAL teams to conduct ambushes and attacks in the waterways of the Mekong Delta, while others continued the reconnaissance of this water-logged terrain. The description of the LRP company’s operations through 1968 contains both reconnaissance and combat actions, performed by single LRP teams or in concert with US Navy SEALS, Provincial Reconnaissance Unit (PRU) personnel, ARVN marine units advised by US Marines, and sniper trainers from the US Army Marksmanship Training Unit."

 

~Taken directly from "the-vietnam-experience-1966-72-lrrp"

 

I would check with 9th ID because there is some conflicting information and even photographs out there.

 

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, were Sea Cobra US Navy Snipers qualified SEALS who attended US Army Sniper schools in-country like the one at Cu Chi or a support element to SEALS? Not being a smart rump Ok? I really want to know the difference there....my goal is tactical enlightment, cue chi chong and purple smoke.

Link to post
Share on other sites
vintageproductions

From what I know about Sea Cobras, they were not SEALS. They were a completely different unit. I also believe they were trained by the 9th division snipers. The Sea Cobras may have operated in the same areas, but they were not SEALS.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hats off to the Polish !!!

You guys blow the Yank SEAL guys out of the water .

Guys this is how it is done .

And not a CISO in sight !!!

o

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hats off to the Polish !!!

You guys blow the Yank SEAL guys out of the water .

Guys this is how it is done .

And not a CISO in sight !!!

o

 

 

Thanks Owen...

the seal project was very short for Us, most of time we was doing USMC Vn but I have small sentiment to seal time!!!

 

Best regards,

Jerry K.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks Owen...

the seal project was very short for Us, most of time we was doing USMC Vn but I have small sentiment to seal time!!!

 

Best regards,

Jerry K.

 

Agree one of the best SEAL impressions ive seen, kudos to you guys! thumbsup.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.