Gulf war field cap

[DutchInfid3l]

I've gotten ahold of an 89 dated desert chocolate chip pattern field cap and I was wondering what the opening in the underside of the cap crown was for, this is the first I've seen one with this, and if it indeed has a purpose of say, being a map pocket or what have you, was this the only time this was tried? Did the later versions have this? Not to mention the fact that the inside has the same pattern as the outside, all the field caps I've seen have had just the plain backing of the fabric.

Thanks for any information that anyone may have!

[craig_pickrall]

I don't think that is an issue cap. It is from the civilian world and could have been sold through a surplus store or even something like Wal-Mart.

[Duffy]

Sorry to tell you....but that cap is a commercial version, often encountered in army surplus stores.

If you are looking for issue pieces, there will be a manufacturer listed on the label.....it won't say

"Made in U.S.A".

If you are looking for an issue "Chocolate-Chip" Hat.....you can find a million boonies on ebay. Cheap too!

Cheers.

[hawkdriver]

Ya, I'm going to dogpile as well. Commercial hat that was probably bought out of AAFES by a soldier that didn't want to wear the boonie. Woodland hats are just as bad, a map pocket is a key identifirer of a commercial hat.

[DutchInfid3l]

I gotcha, makes sense. Didn't even notice the made in the USA on the tag. Thanks for the replys!

[gwb123]

Keep in mind that this doesn't mean such caps were not worn in the Gulf War. There is a lot of commercial made Gear that ends up in GI hands, either because it is better made, more readily available, or like this one, has extra features.

 

Want proof? Just check out the US Cavalry Store at http://www.uscav.com/

 

Also remember too that for the first Gulf War, desert camouflage was in short supply at the beginning of the confict. I remember writing to friends who were not issued desert camo until they had been in country for months, and even then only one or two sets.

 

In fact, right here in Omaha I have seen three fully badged shirts for a CPT in the 1st CAV, one of them goverment issued, the other two civilian manufactured. And all three were worn in country.

 

I am sure there are purists that will insist on collecting only US Government issued items from that period, but that just excludes other items that are equally valid for the time.

[Duffy]

I agree on the fact that there are occasions where a commercially produced garment, will end up being worn by a troop or troops overseas....such as the Gulf war.

I would like to add though, I believe this would be more so encountered in Afghanistan and or Iraq....or at least during the early phases, upon being deployed.

I knew a guy a few years back, who was with S.F....the real deal.....he had commercially produced woodland battle dress. When I asked why he had commercial, he said that this way, he could modify a few sets by removing / adding pockets, etc.....while still having his official set, in normal set up.

Now...for the hats, I do believe there would have been the odd commercial one used, but I wouldn't say that it would have been in this pattern, being the chocolate-chip. I believe that if a few commercial examples were to be found, of which were actually used overseas....that it would be in the tri-color pattern.

Cheers.

Travis

[bravo_2_zero]

Keep in mind that this doesn't mean such caps were not worn in the Gulf War. There is a lot of commercial made Gear that ends up in GI hands, either because it is better made, more readily available, or like this one, has extra features.

 

Want proof? Just check out the US Cavalry Store at http://www.uscav.com/

 

Also remember too that for the first Gulf War, desert camouflage was in short supply at the beginning of the confict. I remember writing to friends who were not issued desert camo until they had been in country for months, and even then only one or two sets.

 

In fact, right here in Omaha I have seen three fully badged shirts for a CPT in the 1st CAV, one of them goverment issued, the other two civilian manufactured. And all three were worn in country.

 

I am sure there are purists that will insist on collecting only US Government issued items from that period, but that just excludes other items that are equally valid for the time.

 

yeh i can agree with that. I have a few choc-chip sets and have sold a few and all that i have seen have had 2 dates, 1983 or 1990. The 1990 dated ones were made on the cheap at the side of the 1983 stuff. Things like no reinforcements and no extra cloth in the back area, maybe to make the BDU's faster for issue.

[hawkdriver]

Ya, don't take it that if it's commercial, then it wasn't worn. When I went to Iraq, we were issued tan two piece and ACU flight suits. It looked absolutely dorky to wear an ACU field hat with tan uniforms, so I went to the PX and bought two three color desert commercial field hats, I believe they were both Brigade Quartermaster commercial hats and wore them for my entire tour. Both have since been retired to the foot locker with my other uniforms and are no less "military" than my issued ACU hat.

[aacevedo]

IIRC during the GW 1, we bought the our Marine Corps covers in six colors off base as we only receved boonie hats thru the supply system= think thry had the same Made in USA label

[PATCHRAT]

Ya, I'm going to dogpile as well. Commercial hat that was probably bought out of AAFES by a soldier that didn't want to wear the boonie. Woodland hats are just as bad, a map pocket is a key identifirer of a commercial hat.

 

while I agree the hat in question IS a commercially made piece and not Issue. I have to disagree on the "map pocket" being a key ID of a non-issue commercially made hat. Our current ACU patrol caps have this same pocket. I still have the hat I was issue in 2005 prior to my first rotation.

[1stDivVet]

I've got 2.. One is light weight woodland camo.. Got it at a PX around 93. It is rip stop and has the pocket in it.. The other is just like your desert camo one. It was given to me by an Arab translater I worked with in Iraq in 91..All we had were boonies.. As a matter of fact, when I first deployed, all I had were woodlands and I wore an od green boonie until I got my chocolate chips.. Like stated above, I got 1 set, older pattern with wide collar and extra back piece.. Next set were more like the newer bdu's without elbow patches tho IIRC. They didn't have the back flap.. Got that set before coming home.. Had the 3 color ones in Somolia..

 

Fins.

[hawkdriver]

while I agree the hat in question IS a commercially made piece and not Issue. I have to disagree on the "map pocket" being a key ID of a non-issue commercially made hat. Our current ACU patrol caps have this same pocket. I still have the hat I was issue in 2005 prior to my first rotation.

 

But, we are not talking ACU hats. Woodland and prior, with map pocket, are civilian bought items.

[El Bibliotecario]

The label is identical to several items of pseudomilitary clothing I've purchased from surplus stores, items which were made for the surplus store trade.

 

One would need a regiment of Jesuits to split hairs on whether stuff like this is 'authentic.' Generations of GIs have purchaed and worn commerical items of uniform which were never officially blessed by the QM, but which were nevertheless tolerated--Blocked caps, commerical baseball caps in non-reg shapes, Cocheran boots, tanker boots,--the list is endless.

[Philip]

are there any official 6 color desert covers (except boonies) at all? must be very rare, cause i've never seen any...

[Duffy]

 

I do believe there is, but don't quote me on it!

I have seen a few Commanders wearing them in photos of the first Gulf war....

 

Duffy.

[101combatvet]

I knew SF guys back in the early 80's that had modified BDUs with pockets on their sleeves.... thought about doing it myself because it was allowed in the field.

 

I knew a guy a few years back, who was with S.F....the real deal.....he had commercially produced woodland battle dress. When I asked why he had commercial, he said that this way, he could modify a few sets by removing / adding pockets, etc.....while still having his official set, in normal set up.

Now...for the hats, I do believe there would have been the odd commercial one used, but I wouldn't say that it would have been in this pattern, being the chocolate-chip. I believe that if a few commercial examples were to be found, of which were actually used overseas....that it would be in the tri-color pattern.

Cheers.

Travis

[bravo_2_zero]

are there any official 6 color desert covers (except boonies) at all? must be very rare, cause i've never seen any...

 

I have this one, now it has DLA number but it seems cheap made ? DLA 100-83-8-22051. Now i do have 1983 issue desert BDU's and they are as well very very cheap made, the sewing in shocking.

[AndrewA74]

 

I do believe there is, but don't quote me on it!

I have seen a few Commanders wearing them in photos of the first Gulf war....

 

Duffy.

Yeah, I've got a pic of Scwartzcoff (spelling?) wearing one with the 4 star pin on it.

Andrew

[Duffy]

Yes.....I remember such a photo! I believe it is spelt " Schwarzkopf".

 

This is a good topic here......the photo recently posted of the cap with the date of 1983 though, I'm not too

sure what to say about this one.....I think it maybe a commercial example as well.

But....the thing that I am not so sure of is how the date of manufacture is yeras before the actual conflict......

I mean, how much re-pops could there have been to a pattern that wasn't hardly even seen until around the

first deployments itself?

I am thinking that these are all mil-spec commercial re-pops but with variation's.

Years back, when I collected modern / current.....I used to have a USMC 8-Point cover in the tri-color pattern, with a map pocket inside......but not only did it say that it was "made in the U.S.A", but that it was manufactured by R&B Co.

I also had an issue piece, with no "made in U.S.A" on the spec tag, but still having been made by R&B Co.......?????

Too many variations I guess!

Back to my comment about how the pattern wasn't really seen enough to re-pop it commercially......I know it was around prior to the war, but I know it wasn't seen much.

Similar, was the Anti-Starlight pattern......this was made years prior to the war, earliest I have seen being dated 1983 actually....but yet no re-pops in the over-garment parka and trousers style......the only re-pops I have seen in this was a few different hats....and for the uniform copy, it was made in a B.D.U style, which to my knowledge didn't even exist, such a cut....

Duffy.

[hawkdriver]

I have this one, now it has DLA number but it seems cheap made ? DLA 100-83-8-22051. Now i do have 1983 issue desert BDU's and they are as well very very cheap made, the sewing in shocking.

 

This is a repro, never have I ever seen the description tag sewn into the head band, it is always in the crown.

[Duffy]

 

Glad you think so too Steve! I assumed such as well.

Duffy

[bravo_2_zero]

This is a good topic here......the photo recently posted of the cap with the date of 1983 though, I'm not too

sure what to say about this one.....I think it maybe a commercial example as well.

But....the thing that I am not so sure of is how the date of manufacture is yeras before the actual conflict......

I mean, how much re-pops could there have been to a pattern that wasn't hardly even seen until around the

first deployments itself?

 

I bought this hat around 17 years ago from a surplus store so i know it's not a modern fantasy item. To tell the truth hats don't interest me, if they are offered with a uniform then more the better.

I have 2 ACU hats (boonie+patrol) i got with the very very 1st issue made by N.E.C.D back in Jan 2005. Both the hats that came with it are R&B with 'Made in USA' on the tags. When i got the ACU the Only repro's were Tru-Spec and were only a cloth repro with a different sewing cut. Now i don't have a clue if the hats are repro but i know only company authorized/licensed at the time was tru-Spec. The R&B head gear were also given to me way before places like US Cav and places like that sold ACU by Propper Int. that were USGI approved.

[Mr-X]

This is a repro, never have I ever seen the description tag sewn into the head band, it is always in the crown.

 

Its a PX or commercial hat.

 

I have one exactly the same.

 

Is there an issue 6 colour BDU cap?

[Duffy]

Mr-X.....

 

I don't believe there is an issue 6-Color desert cap, I think it was made in the boonie only.

Duffy.