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A.L.I.C.E. Gear Reference Topic


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Hi All,

 

would it be possible for someone to start an 1970's-1990's ALICE-gear reference topic? I would like to know more about it and see pics of ALICE items, as I can only find (poor) drawings from a manual on the net. There is little info on the forum now regarding this subject. If you have information and pics of various items and their variations please post them here. Thanks!

 

Greetz ;)

 

David

Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Corvette than in a Yugo.

 

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Please PM me or email me at lrsd117cav@aol.com for any questions requarding ALICE gear. I am currently SF in Alabama NG,and have been in the Army for 20 plus years,so I am quite familiar with the ALICE equipmrnt and the big green wart.

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Yes, I already knew that link. Those illustrations are good when you already have al the stuff and just want to assemble it, but I would like to see pics of actual gear.

 

JSOCSFC, if you have some pics of actual gear you can post that would be great.

 

Did this gear come with some sort of buttpack?

 

Greetz ;)

 

David

Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Corvette than in a Yugo.

 

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JSOCSFC, if you have some pics of actual gear you can post that would be great.

 

Did this gear come with some sort of buttpack?

 

Greetz ;)

 

David

 

The buttpack is like the M1956 and M1967, but in nylon and without the grommets on the right side. There was also a camo version with quick release buckles. I have some ALICE gear I used when I was in JROTC in 1998-1999. One of the ammo pouches is dated 1974. I gave it to my brother several years ago. Plus I have a few items I saved from when I was in the Army National Guard from 2000-2006.

We used the load carrying vest rather than the LC-1 "Y" shaped suspenders. I bought my own gear b/c I liked to use my own stuff. The last two years I was in I bought my own MOLLE II ensemble- vest and rucksack. If no one else posts anything I'll dig out what I have.

Frankie G.

 

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  • 5 months later...
The buttpack is like the M1956 and M1967, but in nylon and without the grommets on the right side. There was also a camo version with quick release buckles. I have some ALICE gear I used when I was in JROTC in 1998-1999. One of the ammo pouches is dated 1974. I gave it to my brother several years ago. Plus I have a few items I saved from when I was in the Army National Guard from 2000-2006.

We used the load carrying vest rather than the LC-1 "Y" shaped suspenders. I bought my own gear b/c I liked to use my own stuff. The last two years I was in I bought my own MOLLE II ensemble- vest and rucksack. If no one else posts anything I'll dig out what I have.

 

I'd love to see some pictures of ALICE and later gear. I as well am interested in post vietnam field gear I am surprised at the huge lack of information available!

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Some images of my ALICE system items. All are DSA 100-74 contract dated:

 

image_01.jpg

 

Complete fighting load components; all early 1974 contracts. M-1972 marked DSA 100-74 contract individual equipment belt with Davis buckle [these were experimented with, again, during the 1970's before the green plastic buckle was adopted], DSA 100-74 contract LC-1 individual equipment belt suspenders, DSA 100-74 contract "small snap" LC-1 field first aid dressing case, M-1972 marked DSA 100-74 contract small arms ammunition cases, early DSA 100-74 contract water canteen cover [with both horizontal and vertical reinforcement stitching] [also has a 1974 dated canteen and canteen cup], and a 1974 dated LC-1 intrenching tool carrier.

 

image_02.jpg

 

Three field first aid dressing cases: from left to right - DSA 100-73 contract "small snap", DSA 100-74 contract "small snap", and DSA 100-74 "large snap".

 

image_03.jpg

 

Two M-1972 marked DSA 100-74 contract small arms ammunition cases.

 

image_04.jpg

 

Fighting load components; all late 1974 contracts. DSA 100-74 contract LC-1 individual equipment belt, rare experimental "H" pattern LC-1 individual equipment belt suspenders, DSA 100-74 contract LC-1 small arms ammunition cases, DSA 100-74 contract LC-1 field first aid dressing case, DSA 100-74 contract water canteen cover [with both horizontal and vertical reinforcement stitching], and a 1974 contract nylon first aid pouch - NOTE this is not part of the ALICE system! I just threw it in because it was 1974 dated.

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The All-Purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment [ALICE] was developed from the LINCLOE [Lightweight Clothing And Equipment] program, which began in 1965 [the M-1967 MLCE was an interim development]. The ALICE system was officially adopted as Standard A on 17 January 1973. Contracts were issued for fiscal year 1974, so the earliest items are dated 1974 [for the fiscal year 1973-1974 contracts]. The original technical manual [no TM number] is dated Novermber 1973.

 

The system was originally designated the M-1972 Lightweight Load-Carrying Equipment [LLCE] but this was changed after the first contracts were issued. So early contract individual equipment belts and small arms ammunition cases are marked "M-1972". Some FY1981 dated contract LC-1 individual equipment belt suspenders are marked "M-1972" for some unknown reason. The only ALICE system item to date that still carries the "M-1972" designtion as part of it's military specifications is the cargo strap that was issued with the field pack system.

 

Arnie101 - are you asking for the markings on the LC-1 suspenders? Or the experimental ones; the experimental ones are unmarked.

 

On a side note some M-1967 MLCE items continued to be manufactured from FY1973 and FY1974 contracts including the water canteen cover, field first aid dressing case, and the intrenching tool carrier.

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Unfortunately the term "ALICE clip" has become so widespread even the US Army is using it - I have seen MOLLE II/ALICE adapters marked "ALICE Clip Adapter". "ALICE clip" WAS a "surplus store term"...KEEPER, BELT-STRAP is the official military designation and they were developed in 1954-1955 and were first used with the M-1956 Load-Carrying Equipment [LCE].

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Anytime I come across a good "layout" image or illustration that I can use for reference I try to create a table with the information concerning the equipment. Here is the one I have for the ALICE system [i also have ones for M-1956 LCE [early and late], M-1961 USMC, M-1967 MLCE, etc.]. I do not know what book the image is originally from - so I can not credit the original author - I found the image on a Russian website years ago.

 

M1972.jpg

M1972_01.jpg

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That is an excelent layout photo! Was there a specific buttpack to be used in combat or where troops to use the ALICE packs instead? I have seen ALICE buttpacks but they are often called training packs so were they actualy to be used only for training?

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There was no "butt pack" for the ALICE system. On paper the medium field pack was to replace the use of a "butt pack". In reality the M-1956 field pack continued to be used until the nylon FIELD PACK, TRAINING, 3-DAY [an improved version of the M-1967 "butt pack"] came into service.

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There was no "butt pack" for the ALICE system. On paper the medium field pack was to replace the use of a "butt pack". In reality the M-1956 field pack continued to be used until the nylon FIELD PACK, TRAINING, 3-DAY [an improved version of the M-1967 "butt pack"] came into service.

Do you know when this was?

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Sorry, I do not know a specific date. If you look at images from Operation Urgent Fury [invasion of Grenada] both the Marines and 82nd Airborne are seen wearing M-1956 field packs...that was in 1983 so I assume it was sometime after that.

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A little side note to this discussion. One item that is not shown on any of these photos is the 550 cord used to dummy cord the equipment to the belt. The clips on the ammo pouches, canteens etc., got worn out and came of the belt. Also the 100 mile-an-hour tape used to tape the adjusting straps on the harness isn't shown. By the late 1980s, a lot of this gear was getting worn out, both in the Reserves and active duty.

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One question, there is canteen cover on firts pistures. Does it have dry hole at base? What markings does it have?

 

Yes, it does have the grommeted drain hole. Markings are as follows:

 

COVER, WATER CANTEEN, NYLON

DSA100-74-C-0105

8465-860-0256

EASTERN CANVAS PROD., INC.

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Was there a specific buttpack to be used in combat or where troops to use the ALICE packs instead?

 

I mentioned earlier "on paper" - well here is the paper - from Appendix C, FM 21-15 Care And Use Of Individual Clothing And Equipment, 15 February 1977, which supersedes FM 21-15 Care And Use Of Individual Clothing And Equipment, 28 August 1972.

 

1. Fighting Load Items

 

a. Clothing: Approximate weight (pounds)

(1) Helmet w/liner 3.44

(2) Trousers and jacket, utility 2.26

(3) Underwear (summer) and socks .60

(4) Boots, leather (DMS) 3.36

(5) Poncho (lightweight) 1.70

(6) Belt, waist, web w/buckle .20

Total 11.56

 

b. Equipment:

(1) Rifle, M16, w/sling and 1 magazine (30 rounds) 7.91

(2) Ammunition (180 rounds) and magazines (6 each) 6.21

(3) Ammunition cases (2 each) .86

(4) Hand grenades (2 each) 2.00

(5) Smoke grenades (2 each) 3.00

(6) Canteen (filled) w/cup and cover 3.60

(7) Water purification tablets .06

(8) Individual equipment belt, first aid packet w/case and suspenders 1.59

(9) Intrenching tool w/carrier 2.52

(10) Bayonet-knife, M7, and scabbard, M8A1 1.30

Total 29.05

 

c. Rations:

(1) Meal w/spoon 1.75

 

Again, "in the field" was whatever the CO would allow!

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