1940Desoto Posted January 19, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 19, 2012 Hello all, I received this garden variety B.A.R spare parts pouch the other day, I purchased it because I believe it to be an example of a USMC altered item. The belt hook looks similar to the M1910 USMC type, and is threaded through the inside of the pouch similar to the pre war first aid pouch. Alec refers to this alteration for wear on a pistol/cartridge belt in 'Grunt Gear' as "specific" to the Marines. (pg. 276 - 277). I was wondering; A. if any forum members have any knowledge of this alteration being carried out by the US Army and, B. If this alteration was Field altered (individual/unit level) or depot altered to a standard directive or instruction. I really appreciate this 'quirky' gear (hence I collect USMC kit) and would like to hear of other examples of this alteration. Cheers Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted January 19, 2012 Share #2 Posted January 19, 2012 Hello all, I received this garden variety B.A.R spare parts pouch the other day, I purchased it because I believe it to be an example of a USMC altered item. The belt hook looks similar to the M1910 USMC type, and is threaded through the inside of the pouch similar to the pre war first aid pouch. Alec refers to this alteration for wear on a pistol/cartridge belt in 'Grunt Gear' as "specific" to the Marines. (pg. 276 - 277). I was wondering; A. if any forum members have any knowledge of this alteration being carried out by the US Army and, B. If this alteration was Field altered (individual/unit level) or depot altered to a standard directive or instruction. I really appreciate this 'quirky' gear (hence I collect USMC kit) and would like to hear of other examples of this alteration. Cheers Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted January 19, 2012 Share #3 Posted January 19, 2012 I have seen plenty of these thru the years that have been altered. Some that looked like yours...which appears to be the real thing...altered by a grunt. On the other hand I have seen many with two crummy little slash cuts for maybe a Boy Scout belt to pass thru. Also I have seen photos of grunts with these modified and hanging on a cartridge belt. Have also seen film/video of the same....you just have to look for em. Yours is one of the nicer ones I've seen and would like that in my collection. That's a great find. Ronnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1940Desoto Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted January 20, 2012 Ronnie, Thanks for replying mate, I think its a cool bit of kit myself. I just do not see this type of gear here in Australia that often so Im stoked to have it. Cheers Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted January 20, 2012 Share #5 Posted January 20, 2012 Ronnie, Thanks for replying mate, I think its a cool bit of kit myself. I just do not see this type of gear here in Australia that often so Im stoked to have it. Cheers Sean Well Sean it's a great find. You should be stoked. Ronnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted January 20, 2012 Share #6 Posted January 20, 2012 DeSoto: I'm not trying to hijack your thread with a Helmet picture, but this is the only photo I have of this B.A.R. Pouch (Dang!! :pinch:), which was modified similarly to yours- complete with Marine-specific belt hooks. The guy's initials and surname are stenciled on it as well in the typical Marine Corps style. More pics to come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinb Posted January 20, 2012 Share #7 Posted January 20, 2012 I just went down to my war building to take this picture, and 'Flage Guy beats me to it! Anyway, mine is also marked on the back with the Marine's name. Maybe you can see that his first 2 initials are on either side of the belt hook tab, and his last name SPAIN is underneath it. That indicates that it was marked after the belt hook tab was installed in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted January 20, 2012 Share #8 Posted January 20, 2012 :w00t: Highly interesting, Robin- the alteration is identical to mine. I wonder how many of these there are out there :think: They show up quite often in combat photos hanging from Belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted January 20, 2012 Share #9 Posted January 20, 2012 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...=627&hl=BAR Follow this link and you will see another BAR parts box like what Flage and Robin have plus a photo of it in use in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Boghots Posted January 20, 2012 Share #10 Posted January 20, 2012 :w00t: Highly interesting, Robin- the alteration is identical to mine. I wonder how many of these there are out there :think:They show up quite often in combat photos hanging from Belts. Jim & Robin, I too have owned one of these, though I have no photos to back it up. But Perry I listed and sold it in one of our 1980's catalogs. I wrote the description for it, and rember writing about what appeared to be the distinct USMC belt hooks. - I believe the canvas & rivet hook suspension to be the same type. Best regards, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1940Desoto Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted January 20, 2012 Gents, Thankyou for your responses...that is exactly what i was looking for ! I recall seeing a reference image showing that exact modification and as I now have 2 other examples it leads me to consider the possibility of this modification being perhaps more than just a clever grunts idea that cought on in the field and evolving to perhaps a unit QM level mod or perhaps a Depot directive'modification ? Craig thanks for the link mate I will check it out...you guys are good people in my book Cheers Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted January 20, 2012 Share #12 Posted January 20, 2012 Craig: Thanks for the link; that Saipan photo was the first one I had in mind of these Pouches in action. A high-definition version of this shot reveals that these guys are wearing camo suits. Paul: Your testimony seems to add more to the notion that this could well have been a significant Q.M. modification on large numbers of these Pouches. I'm betting that one reason that they don't pop up often is that leather just doesn't survive amphibious landings and tropical conditions as well as cotton duck and even HBT :think: Sean: The pleasure is ours; that's the purpose of this great Forum :thumbsup: Below, a better view of mine; the "MCCARTY" name stencil is barely visible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted January 20, 2012 Share #13 Posted January 20, 2012 The back. The white leather used for this is much like the rugged stuff used on Army Rucksacks and other such gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1940Desoto Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share #14 Posted January 22, 2012 Flage guy, Thanks for the images mate, good reference material. I will keep an eye out for that example. Cheers Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted January 22, 2012 Share #15 Posted January 22, 2012 Flage guy, Thanks for the images mate, good reference material. I will keep an eye out for that example. Cheers Sean No problemmo!! :thumbsup: I'll bet you'll snag one, as it appears that there were a lot of these made up. Plus, it seems to me that the Australia/New Zealand region would be fair pickings for old U.S.M.C. stuff...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted January 22, 2012 Share #16 Posted January 22, 2012 I have a doubt about the first post pouch. I replaced several M1910 brass hooks on M1916 holsters which I got cheap just for missing hooks so I dont think a grunt could have performed a such perfect job in the theater. It takes a propane torch to anneal and straighten the brass at one end, then a good pliers of correct shape and at least a good manual skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted January 22, 2012 Share #17 Posted January 22, 2012 I have a doubt about the first post pouch. I replaced several M1910 brass hooks on M1916 holsters which I got cheap just for missing hooks so I dont think a grunt could have performed a such perfect job in the theater. It takes a propane torch to anneal and straighten the brass at one end, then a good pliers of correct shape and at least a good manual skill. That's why Marines....adapt, improvise and overcome. Ronnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted January 22, 2012 Share #18 Posted January 22, 2012 That's why Marines....adapt, improvise and overcome.Ronnie Yes, but it's much more simple to have a piece of web or leather with some rivets and do like others did. Considering tha habit of american "do-it-youself" guys to adopt cheap mil surplus for their jobs, I cant exclude such modifications would be civilian postwar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted January 22, 2012 Share #19 Posted January 22, 2012 Yes, but it's much more simple to have a piece of web or leather with some rivets and do like others did. Considering tha habit of american "do-it-youself" guys to adopt cheap mil surplus for their jobs, I cant exclude such modifications would be civilian postwar. It couldn't be anymore simpler than to punch a couple of holes, take your pliers bend one side a little and weave the hanger thru. There is no evidence that a torch was used on this modification...there is clear evidence of pliers being used. Considering the habit of American "do-it-yourself" Marines to adopt cheap mil gear for their jobs, I can't exclude such modifications would be Marine during war. Ronnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1940Desoto Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share #20 Posted January 23, 2012 Aetu44, Fair call mate . You have obviously seen many examples of this modification, could you please post images or any reference material you have of this sort of Pacific theatre modification. That would prove most helpful. You have to forgive me (mi dispiace) Im an old int operator who likes to deal with facts at hand not speculation or anecdotes. Cheers Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1940Desoto Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share #21 Posted January 23, 2012 No problemmo!! :thumbsup: I'll bet you'll snag one, as it appears that there were a lot of these made up. Plus, it seems to me that the Australia/New Zealand region would be fair pickings for old U.S.M.C. stuff...? Not as easy as you might think...but I think that is the nature of the Corps during WW2 at least 'use it and break it and fix it until it cant be fixed no more'. From what I have read they are a very resourcefull bunch and didnt leave much of anything behind. (Much like the AUSTRALIAN ARMY) Cheers Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted January 23, 2012 Share #22 Posted January 23, 2012 Aetu44, Fair call mate . You have obviously seen many examples of this modification, could you please post images or any reference material you have of this sort of Pacific theatre modification. That would prove most helpful. You have to forgive me (mi dispiace) Im an old int operator who likes to deal with facts at hand not speculation or anecdotes. Cheers Sean This is the point. In absence of sources we can only speculate. I said only what I saw: a real neat job very difficult to made out without suitable tools and manual skill. If you try to straighten a brass hook you'll break it unless you before warm it to a cherry red and put it quickly in cold water. As reloaders know very well, brass has negative temper. Who did it and where, I dont know, aniway references can be found in the forum. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...c=627&hl=ba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soungdog Posted January 23, 2012 Share #23 Posted January 23, 2012 This is the point. In absence of sources we can only speculate. I said only what I saw: a real neat job very difficult to made out without suitable tools and manual skill. If you try to straighten a brass hook you'll break it unless you before warm it to a cherry red and put it quickly in cold water. As reloaders know very well, brass has negative temper. Who did it and where, I dont know, aniway references can be found in the forum. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...c=627&hl=ba I have 2 bar pouches one field modified to fit on the bar belt in the back will post pix later today will have to unpack them from the move from Idaho but will post the info Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1940Desoto Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share #24 Posted January 23, 2012 I have 2 bar pouches one field modified to fit on the bar belt in the back will post pix later today will have to unpack them from the move from Idaho but will post the info Don Hey Don, That would be fantastic mate thankyou...hope the move went smoothly. I like the attachment what book is it from ? Cheers Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1940Desoto Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share #25 Posted January 23, 2012 This is the point. In absence of sources we can only speculate. I said only what I saw: a real neat job very difficult to made out without suitable tools and manual skill. If you try to straighten a brass hook you'll break it unless you before warm it to a cherry red and put it quickly in cold water. As reloaders know very well, brass has negative temper. Who did it and where, I dont know, aniway references can be found in the forum. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...c=627&hl=ba Artu44, Thankyou for the link...Craig sure does have 'one helluva' collection :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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