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EGA Emblem Clutchbacks.........When did they start ?


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#1 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:50 AM

Over on the EGA reference board, and in PM's, we have had a rambling discussion about dating early period Globe and Anchor emblems. To this point, no one is certain when the use of these devices began. What has become a point of discussion are early vintage emblems, that have all the character and production similarities to the late 20's and into the 30's, that have clutchback pins. At one point another member posted a sales catalog page from the early 40's to our discussion.

I have added a picture of one that is in question with early production features. Was the emblems stock stored for a lenghty period and upon introduction of cluthbacks refitted as such. OR or produced as such in late 20's or 30's and as all clutchbacks do, simply wear out and replaced with newer stock???????

So would like to hear (and pic's) from those of you whom have early Army / Navy examples, prior to WW2, and or reference materials dating the introduction of clutchback emblems, a sincere thanks for your help. Best regards;

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 29 April 2008 - 10:26 AM.


#2 QED4

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 01:28 PM

I don't think any one really knows for sure when the clutch back type insignia were introduced but they were defiantly around in the 1930s. There is no government spec on them, they were at the discretion of the manufacturers and they may have been patented for jewelry before they were applied to insignia, I don't know. One thing for sure, the Ballou Fasteners were patented in 1942, these are the brass clutches usually associated with the clutch back insignia. These were so cheap and effective that they became standard almost overnight. The clutch back insignia used in the 1930s used the tie tack type fasteners which were much more expensive to make. But since both are interchangable they tend to get shuffled around over the years, actually most have the post war clutches with the little cleats on them now.

#3 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 03:36 PM

I believe your comments are pointed in the right direction. Know one is certain, at this moment, however there enough indicators they came into use during the depression era of our parents. However, we need certain and verifiable evidence of their exisitance in the 20's / 30's with period originals. I agree with your assumptions.

#4 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 11:43 AM

Reviving this topic, we have recently identified a 1926 or later Marine Officers Service coat emblem (AKA "China Marine" - "Gooney Bird") that has clutchback posts. Hoping someone else has similar emblems of this age or earlier... Army, Navy.......?

Emblem from collection of "Bobgee"

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 03 August 2007 - 11:45 AM.


#5 Brig

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 10:46 AM

that's probably a pretty rare emblem just because of the clutchback

#6 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 08:10 AM

I have just uncovered a bit more information about these devices and when their use began. As it turns out in December 1926 Army Regulation 600-25 did provide for the use of these devices. The first clutchback fastener were then advertised by N.S. Meyer in the Army and Navy Register of November 1926.

Should someone have a copy, a scan would be appreaciated or is someone has a N.S. Myer catalog from this era, they may have been presented in their catalog for the first time? s/f Darrell

#7 Jeremiah

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 04:34 AM

Good thread Darrell. I have the same '26 pattern H&H bird in a screw post configuration. I'd guess it was available in 2 or 3 different configurations. I do have some clutches that have a patent number on them that was awarded in 1943. They are flat faced and usually sterling. Anyone else seen those?

#8 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 06:01 AM

I am going to try and find the earliest by using the numbers you see stamped on these gems. Spent time yesterday trying a drill down with the goggle search feature: http://www.google.co...d_patent_search It provides PDF copies of the drawing and Patent approval letter.

Just ran out of ideas with the names or key word search feature. Did come across two granted to N.S. Meyer... but nothing could be found on earlier than WW2. The N.S. Meyer clutchback must be there... somewhere, likely under the inventors name. Perhaps a member will come across this thread someday and have one of their early catalogs that can provide more clues. Asked Sarge Booker for a email copy of his N.S. Meyer catalog dated 1926... nothing to be found :(

s/f Darrell

#9 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 10:52 AM

Well at least one EGA mystery has been solved, the first clutchback for use with military emblems (and EGA's specific) came about with the issuing of patent number 1412481 (and a second issued at the same date: #1412480, called a Sectring Means) to Charles Mendler of California in April 1922. The device at that time was called "securing device" The question now, does anyone have a clutchback with these patent number in their collection? I know some EGA's collectors who would dearly love to match up some early pinbacks with these early clutchbacks! s/f Darrell

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#10 robert60446

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 01:41 PM

Great info Darrell! Thanks for sharing with us!

#11 Dirk

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 02:40 PM

Darrell: Well done!!!! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

#12 bobgee

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:21 PM

Great research, Darrell. Places those clutchbacks on insignia much earlier than most of us suspected.
Semper Fi......Bob

#13 Brig

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:29 PM

one mystery down, many more to go. great find http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

#14 harrier9601

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:56 PM

I don't have examples of the patent number 1412481 clutch back, but I did find some with the slightly later patent number 1454857, which was approved on May 15, 1923. Interestingly, even though these have a later patent approval date than the example Darrell posted, the initial patent request was actually filed two months earlier on September 16, 1921. They are described as a "separable button" by the inventor, Elisha Phinney of Pawtucket, RI. Unfortunately, I don't remember on what type of insignia these originally came.

Here are two marked "PAT. NO. 1454857"

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Here are three marked "PAT. MAY 15, 1923"

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This one might be the oldest, as it is simply marked "PAT. APP'D FOR"

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Edited by Brig, 12 May 2014 - 05:15 PM.


#15 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:56 AM

Just a theory on my part, after looking at the two devices and reading the patent application... the final version makers began to use may have been a combination of both? Or perhaps a refined version of either? s/f Darrell

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  • 1412480_2.png
  • 1412480.png


#16 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 07:00 AM

This photo is a superb example of these early design clutchbacks, photo comes from http://www.usmilitar...mp;#entry491696 of Lt. Col. Harold Finn Gormsen

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#17 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:30 AM

Bringing this old topic back to life, hoping any newer members may have more photo's to add, of these pre WW2 clutchback "like" devices. Thanks!

#18 hirsca

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:09 AM

Here are some that I have. I've tried not to duplicate previous examples. Thanks, Al Hirschler in Dallas.

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#19 hirsca

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:10 AM

Here are some that I have. I've tried not to duplicate previous examples. Thanks, Al Hirschler in Dallas.

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#20 hirsca

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:12 AM

Amcraft

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#21 hirsca

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:13 AM

Amcraft


Unmarked

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#22 hirsca

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:15 AM

Unmarked

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#23 hirsca

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:16 AM

Reverse

Last pic, thanks.

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