Vietnam Class A insignia concern

[daskrieg]

I recently bought a "72 dated officer class A jacket that looks like a complete put together, my question is it is made up as a warrant officer but the insignia is silver not the usual gold color, the buttons are silver also. Could this be legit?

[easterneagle87]

Could they have used "Sta-Brite" insignia?

[gwb123]

Yes. Warrant Officers had the option of wearing silver colored insignia and buttons. I can't recall if that was reserved for ranks CW-2 and above or if CW-1 could wear that as well.

 

If you have both silver colored insignia and buttons on the uniform, chances they are original to it.

 

What else makes you question the uniform? Please post a photo when you get a chance.

[gwb123]

Related thread:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/316472-have-anyone-ever-seen-60s-70s-nickelchrome-officers-branch-of-service-badges/

[Steve B.]

ALL service members were allowed to wear silver buttons, insignia, etc. except for rank insignia as long as EVERYTHInG was silver: buttons, branch insignia, frames around unit awards, etc. Not sure when this started/ended, but I believe it was limited to the dress green Class A uniform days. I saw it regularly during the 1970s-1980s.

[daskrieg]

On the same jacket it is the 79th infantry unit Reserve from 1972 on the right sleeve is a Marine Corps 2nd division patch the ribbon bar has a lot of Marine Corps and Army Reserve ribbons this is the reason why I'm unsure with this uniform could that be legit also as my uncle was in the Marine Corps and Army Reserve and he wears both style ribbons I will post pictures if I am able to get them to fit on the form within the next few days

[patches]

ALL service members were allowed to wear silver buttons, insignia, etc. except for rank insignia as long as EVERYTHInG was silver: buttons, branch insignia, frames around unit awards, etc. Not sure when this started/ended, but I believe it was limited to the dress green Class A uniform days. I saw it regularly during the 1970s-1980s.

Late 50s early 60s on, earlier too with EM nickle domed brass started coming out in the early 50s, but then that wasn't a factor cause of the IKE's at least if IKEs were worn, EM could wear Dress Blues and or the Khaki coat, the Officers too of course with their Pinks and Greens. Posted a mid 50s insinia ad that had Nickle nameplates as well as Brass ones for sale, can't find it now, Nickel ones are assumed to be primary AF, on the other had AF didn't wear nameplates of any kind to a great extent in the 50s, but we imagine they were worn by Army as well, perhaps if Nickle collar discs might of been worn, I say that cause I have a 50s AA Khaki shirt that has Ordnance Nickle domed discs and a Nickle Name plate.

[patches]

Here's a pre 1954 Meyer Nickle, Silver or White Gold (however you want to catogize it), after 1954 Meyer gose with that second shield with 9M in it.

 

[Justin B.]

AR 670-5, Uniform and Insignia, Male Personnel, 1971:

13–3 Buttons. a. Gold plated or gold color buttons on coat and cap of uniforms for all personnel, except as prescribed in b below, will be as shown in figure 13–2.

b. Gold plated or gold color buttons on coat and cap of service uniforms for officers of the Corps of Engineers will be as shown in figure 13–2.

Note. Anodized aluminum buttons (shiny white gold appearance) are authorized for optional purchase and wear in lieu of the gold plated or gold colored buttons. Size and configuration must conform to the standard button. Anodized aluminum buttons will not be mixed with standard buttons on the complete uniform coat.

[Martinjmpr]

WRT the USMC patch on the right sleeve, I don't know if that was "authorized" but I saw it in the Army in the early 80's when I first came in - Vietnam veterans who had served in the Marines would wear the patch of their marine division (the only ones I ever saw were 1st and 3rd Marine Division) on the right sleeve.

 

My understanding is that "officially" the only Marine veterans who would be authorized to wear a Marine patch on an Army uniform would be those who were in the Marines when the Marines wore shoulder patches - which they stopped doing after WWII. So "officially" a former Marine who subsequently went into the Army could not wear a patch on his right sleeve if he was a veteran of Korea or Vietnam. But, again, I saw it done so it may be that it was one of those things that was not "authorized" by reg but was "tolerated" by many commands.

 

Now, my knowledge of the uniform and patch regs dates from my time in service which started in the 1980s, so it's possible that the regs were different in the early 70's.

 

Currently the rule on Marine patches is, in my opinion, very strange: USMC patches are still authorized - but only for Army personnel! IOW, soldiers who served in Iraq or Afghanistan under a USMC Command are authorized to wear the USMC patch as a right-sleeve (Combat) patch. But Marines who were in that same campaign, and who later join the Army, are NOT allowed to wear the patch.

[RedLegGI]

Currently the rule on Marine patches is, in my opinion, very strange: USMC patches are still authorized - but only for Army personnel! IOW, soldiers who served in Iraq or Afghanistan under a USMC Command are authorized to wear the USMC patch as a right-sleeve (Combat) patch. But Marines who were in that same campaign, and who later join the Army, are NOT allowed to wear the patch.

 

Most guys who changed branches will still wear the combat patch. It's an unwritten rule that you earned it, and that its nonsense not to wear it, even if the regs say no.

 

[patches]

The use of the old Marine Corps shoulder patches are quite an interesting study, true they were done away with after WWII, but they are still retained as symbols of the divisions, and with the Air Wings.

 

Here are example's, two from the 60s.

 

The 3rd Marine Division, seen of this M247 Mule with the M40 106mm Recoilless Rifle, this unknown unit of the Okinawa based 3rd Mar Div is on maneuvers in South Korea around 1964. HERE

 

And a Gomer Pyle episode, here we see the 5th and 3rd Marine Division patches as a wall plaques. While it's known that the Marine Corps stopped wearing them after WWII, they still retained them to use up to the present day as a matter of fact, they where, and are use in and on all sorts of things, Stationary, Letter Heads, integrated into unit signage, on rare occasion on vehicles/aircraft, you name it. HERE

 

The continued use today of the WWII USMC Shoulder Patch as a Official symbol, in this case the 2nd Mar Div in more contemporary signage.

Note even the use of the WWI 2nd Division patch for the 1st 2nd and 3rd Battalions 6th Marines, HERE

[daskrieg]

Found out over the weekend this vet was in the Marines in WWII(pacific) later joined the Army reserve(20+ yrs)into Vietnam as a Warrant officer. Since he saw combat as a Marine he was allowed to wear his 2nd USMC patch on his right shoulder while wearing his current Reserve Army uniform. The uniform is dated 1972.

[atb]

Probably tolerated by his local command, but still not allowed by Army Regulations. A common situation at that time.

[daskrieg]

Yes i should have chosen my words better and said tolorated not allowed

[patches]

Well to see a whole load of former Marines in Army in the 50s up to the present wearing a Marine Corps Division or other Marine Corps unit as a combat patch, I invite you to go thorough this topic HERE.