Jump to content


Photo

80th Division Helmet markings WWI


  • Please log in to reply
83 replies to this topic

#1 rolfi

rolfi
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,923
  • 69 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:12 AM

Promted by the pinned "Painted Helmets" thread and with regard to the question of 80th Division's helmet markings; as far as I can make out the four Infantry Regiments used the shapes sketched below in different colours. Red for 1st Battalion, white for the second, and blue for the third. The MG company used either red and blue together or, maybe, black. Some seem to have added the company letter.
If anyone can confirm my interpretation and provide any information as to which unit used which shape; I'd appreciate it. In the sketch conjectural insignia has been faded a little.
80div_2.jpg

Edited by Bugme, 18 June 2009 - 06:52 PM.


#2 rolfi

rolfi
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,923
  • 69 posts

Posted 06 December 2008 - 04:13 AM

(Amended post)
Prompted by the pinned "Painted Helmets" thread and with regard to the question of 80th Division's helmet markings; as far as I can make out the four Infantry Regiments used the shapes sketched below in different colours. Red for 1st Battalion, white for the second, and blue for the third. The MG company used red and blue in combination . Some seem to have added the company letter.
If anyone can confirm my interpretation and provide any information as to which unit used which shape; I'd appreciate it. In the sketch conjectural insignia has been faded a little.

80div_2.jpg

#3 aef1917

aef1917
  • Members
    • Member ID: 270
  • 1,858 posts
  • Location:Hellaware

Posted 06 December 2008 - 11:17 AM

I can't say for sure whether it's correct, but it's logical. I like it.

I've seen the shield insignia in white and red as well, so I'm not sure how that fits in.

#4 atb

atb
  • Members
    • Member ID: 943
  • 4,132 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:East Coast

Posted 06 December 2008 - 11:25 AM

From the WW1 painted helmets discussion- my 80th Division helmet with a blue shield with a white "K."

Attached Images

  • DSC03301.JPG


#5 aef1917

aef1917
  • Members
    • Member ID: 270
  • 1,858 posts
  • Location:Hellaware

Posted 08 December 2008 - 02:33 PM

I just ran across some pictures I saved from an eBay 80th Division group. It's attributed to Corporal Martin E. Hill, Co. C 320th Infantry.

Attached Images

  • hill116.jpg
  • hill115.jpg


#6 aef1917

aef1917
  • Members
    • Member ID: 270
  • 1,858 posts
  • Location:Hellaware

Posted 08 December 2008 - 02:37 PM

I've also seen 80th helmets with a spade on one side. Here's another picture saved from an eBay auction, identifying that insignia to the 305th Engineers.

Attached Images

  • f9_12.JPG


#7 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 10 February 2009 - 07:40 AM

c1df_2.jpg 318th Inf Reg MG Coy

#8 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 10 February 2009 - 07:45 AM

c1d6_2.jpg 1st Bn 318th Inf

#9 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 10 February 2009 - 07:46 AM

c1db_2.jpg 2nd Bn 318th Inf

#10 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 10 February 2009 - 07:48 AM

c20e_2.jpg c210_2.jpg 314th MG Bn HQ Coy and B Coy

#11 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 10 February 2009 - 08:04 AM

I have identified most of the Artillery Units. I also have a 305th Field Signal Bn Helmet.The row with the squares or diamonds is 100% correct. I own all four helmets with these markings and they are posted also. The markings of the 320th I`ve never seen , but I`m glad to get some help with identification. I have some helmets from the 80th with some insignia but no Regiment. These helmets wont fit in your sketch below.

#12 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 10 February 2009 - 08:13 AM

PICT0001.JPG PICT0002.JPG

#13 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 10 February 2009 - 08:14 AM

PICT0003.JPG PICT0006.JPG

#14 rolfi

rolfi
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,923
  • 69 posts

Posted 12 February 2009 - 02:54 AM

Intriguing helmets indeed. I wonder how they fit in to the divisional scheme of markings. I know the engineers used, appropriately, the ace of spades, ordnance a grenade on a shield and signals used their branch insignia. I reckon the infantry and machine gunners used the following...
80_div_helmet_markings.jpg
and the only insignia I know of for the artillery is...
art3.jpg
Unfortunately I don't know which artillery regiment used them. If anyone can add to my information I'd appreciate it greatly.

Cheers

RW

#15 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 13 February 2009 - 12:21 AM

PICT0011.JPG PICT0014.JPG

Intriguing helmets indeed. I wonder how they fit in to the divisional scheme of markings. I know the engineers used, appropriately, the ace of spades, ordnance a grenade on a shield and signals used their branch insignia. I reckon the infantry and machine gunners used the following...
80_div_helmet_markings.jpg
and the only insignia I know of for the artillery is...
art3.jpg
Unfortunately I don't know which artillery regiment used them. If anyone can add to my information I'd appreciate it greatly.

Cheers

RW

All Artillery Units wear the "Gun Sight" on their Helmets.It referenced the 313th and 314th with two blocks at approximately 45 degrees and 270 degrees.The 315th was 155 mm and their gunsight emblem was a variation of this emblem.It contained the infantry colors in the four quadrants (blue).In the center, there was a star, and the battery letter was in the center of the star.

#16 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 13 February 2009 - 12:23 AM

PICT0019.JPG PICT0015.JPG

PICT0011.JPG PICT0014.JPG
All Artillery Units wear the "Gun Sight" on their Helmets.It referenced the 313th and 314th with two blocks at approximately 45 degrees and 270 degrees.The 315th was 155 mm and their gunsight emblem was a variation of this emblem.It contained the infantry colors in the four quadrants (blue).In the center, there was a star, and the battery letter was in the center of the star.



#17 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 13 February 2009 - 12:35 AM

PICT0008.JPG
I have also some nice gas mask bags in my collection. One bag is that of Pvt Konrad J. Harrer, 319th Inf Regiment E Coy. And he have A DIAMOND on his bag.

PICT0009.JPG
I have also a nice gasmask bag with a spade but no unit designation. Could that be 305th Engineers. (RIGHT BAG)

#18 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 13 February 2009 - 12:55 AM

305th_Field_Signal_Bn_Helmet_Left_Side.jpg 305th_Field_Signal_Bn_Helmet_Right_Side.jpg .jpg]
To complete the series:
305th Field Signal Battalion

#19 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 13 February 2009 - 12:56 AM

PICT0021.JPG
313th MG Bn, A Coy

#20 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 13 February 2009 - 12:58 AM

All helmets shown are part of my collection.
PICT0023.JPG

#21 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 26 February 2009 - 09:28 AM

According to this data, there was no triangular-shaped insignia. The 317th Infantry used a diamond; the 318th used a square; the 319th used a circle; and the 320th used a half-circle (sometimes resembling a shield, as you show in your diagram). Specific colors were utilized by HQ Co, Supply Co, and Machine Gun Companies and 1st, 2nd and 3rd Battalions, as you note. The M.G. Battalions used a shield, with the specific colors of each Infantry Battalion of their attachment. The Engineers used a spade, with the red or white colors of its two battalions and their HQ Co. had a divided spade: top red, bottom white.

#22 80thdivcollector

80thdivcollector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,451
  • 99 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 26 February 2009 - 09:41 AM

Source:
Second full paragraph on page 130 of History of the Eightieth Division, A.E.F., authored by Russell Stultz, and edited, enhanced and published by Dr. Anthony in 2004:

Previously announced, the distinctive symbols of the various units of the Division were
declared official on April 30th. For the four Infantry regiments, in their order beginning with the
317t h Infantry, they were a diamond, square, circle, and half-circle; the symbol of each unit's
Headquarters Company was colored red. white and blue, that of the Supply Company red and white.
and that of the Machine Gun Company red and blue; the battalion symbols were colored red, white,
and blue, in numerical order. The three Machine Gun Battalions were identified with a shield - blue
and white, red and white, and red and blue, in order, beginning with the 313M. Other units of the
command were assigned equally distinctive symbols, thereby enabling property and individuals to be
immediately identified by the markings required on the packing cases, wagons, helmets, and other
property articles.

Mr. Stultz was the official historian for the 80th Division in WW I, and spent years compiling data for his manuscript.The publication of the book in 2004 by Doc Anthony was not well received by the memorabilia community who claim to have "provenance" for certain markings, and insist that the Stultz data is wrong. However, Stultz was in the 80th Division, studied its history for many years following the War, and included official documents in his writing.
Stultz did not specifically identify lesser units (MST, Field Signal Bn, etc.) and I have seen a few other markings that obviously were utilized by these units.

Roland

#23 Bones

Bones
  • Members
    • Member ID: 736
  • 2,900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Out state Nebraska

Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:19 AM

I have posted this helmet in the WW1 painted helmets thread but here it is again for your discussion. It is part of a grouping a bought from a collector. There is no paper work with this grouping and I have not researched it yet. First the right side.

Attached Images

  • DSCN1677.JPG


#24 Bones

Bones
  • Members
    • Member ID: 736
  • 2,900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Out state Nebraska

Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:21 AM

This is the front. Have any of the 80th collectors scene the collar device punched through the helmet on any other 80th ID helmets?

Attached Images

  • DSCN1678.JPG

Edited by Bones, 27 February 2009 - 07:22 AM.


#25 Bones

Bones
  • Members
    • Member ID: 736
  • 2,900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Out state Nebraska

Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:23 AM

Left side of the helmet. 305 Engineers if I have read this thread correctly. You can see the owners intials scratched into the back rim.

Attached Images

  • DSCN1679.JPG

Edited by Bones, 27 February 2009 - 07:27 AM.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users