Strange WW2 Paratrooper Combination

[louie]

As I go through the duffle bags to see what stuff I have come across over the years some stuff just sticks out as strange. This is actually one of the only tunics/blouses that actually came out with an oval, and a nice pin back paratrooper wing still on it. Any idea how this combo could come about? I am more an Air Corps and Marine collector, so this one kind of has me stumped.

[louie]

Here's his laundry number and thanks for any idea or help.

[Timberwolf]

Looks like he probably volunteered for parachute training to get out of Alaska!

[doyler]

Agreed.

I have a uniform to a local who appears to have done the same.MWalsh on the forum told me that during the war you could not be denied a transfer to airborne or volunteer and many who wanted out of the Aleutian theatre did volunteer.The vet here was older and he ended up doing training at Beginning or in the area there.

[patches]

Oval is for the Airborne Command no?

[louie]

I m pretty sure that's what oval it is. However I have seen many 11th Airborne Ikes with that same oval. Even once had a paratrooper jacket with that oval on it with both the Airborne Command and the 11th Airborne on the right.

[doyler]

 

Link to the uniform I mentioned.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=37652&hl=airborne

[1SG_1st_Cav]

This jacket looks made-up to me.

[jguy1986]

This jacket looks made-up to me.

It's an odd combo for sure, but It's important to explain the reasoning behind our impressions on these types of items. That anecdote of volunteering for paratroop training to get out of Alaska makes a lot of sense. If you think it's fake, please explain why.

[Allan H.]

I would disagree whole-heartedly with the assertion that this jacket is "made up." When evaluating a uniform, the first question is "why would somebody want to fake this?" In this case, the answer is that nobody would want to. There's no "big money" in this jacket. If it were a fake, why not put an airborne patch on it? To simply add a jump wing and oval to an original uniform, also wouldn't make any sense as it still wouldn't motivate an airborne collector to go after this one.

 

Now let's look at the source. Louie is well known for having pulled a lot of fabulous stuff out of the rag mills for the last thirty plus years. Why would he bother to doll up a uniform? Conversely, nobody is going to make money by throwing this jacket in with the rags.

 

It is probable that the soldier got out of Alaska to go to the paratroops, though I would expect to see an Airborne Command patch on the jacket. The patch on his left shoulder is "Replacement and School Command," so he was most likely in a Replacement Depot or assigned to a school after parachute training. By the end of the war, the army had more than enough qualified paratroopers, and it was very common for newly minted paratroopers to end up outside of the airborne divisions.

 

"EDIT" I should add that the oval was worn by HQ 11th Airborne as well as by the Airborne Command. It was very commonly used as an unassigned background trimming.

 

My three cents,

Allan

[QED4]

First I know nothing about this uniform and am not going to second guess why it would exist but I would like to address the idea that no one would make up such a uniform. I can think of several reasons some one would make it. First it could be completely innocent, made up as a costume for a high school play or local theater group using what was on hand and only a basic knowledge of what it should look like or even an individual for a Halloween costume and discarded when they were done. Second to fool people, a four pocket jacket even with basic insignia is pretty much worthless at best $20-25 and even then nobody want them, they will hang around for ever. So just to get rid of it you slap on a pair of paratrooper wings and put $40 or $50 on it and some one will grab it and think they got something, not a lot of money but it is gone off your rack. The wings could have been added by the original owner, every one knows how soldiers like to dress up their uniforms when they go home. He would not have been the first one to pretend to be a paratrooper, he's home and out of the Army what is the worst that could happen? he runs into a real paratrooper at that point I doubt he would even care. I guess that could be considered and original uniform but not a legitimate one. I think a closer look at the back of the wings would be very telling in this case.

[louie]

Well, I sure didn't mess with this uniform. I paid probably $5. for it, when most tunics at the mills I went to were 5.00 whether they had a Merrill's Marauder patch, or an Army Replacement Command. Just by looking at the two Marine ones I posted you can see, I came across all kinds of stuff in the mills. In those days, the 80's and even 90's most people could care less for most U.S. WW2 uniform items with maybe the exception of Jump jackets, tankers, etc, that at times would fetch, say, $100! I am slowly getting rid of stuff, but some stuff still draws a ? from me when I look at them. Here are some pictures of the wing. It has sterling, and a number, 163 etched in the back. P.S. If you are going to fake something, then put on a Kiska Task Force, or a 1st SSF, something that would catch attention on Ebay,etc. The Alaskan Command and Replacement patch on a good day would get you $5.00 for both.

[louie]

Here is one more shot, of the inside of the jacket. The guys laundry number is stamped quite a few places, but unlike Marines, hard to figure out with something this common. The sewing is all the same throughout, with old thick cotton thread.

[doyler]

No one would make this uniform up for a play or a costume as there wouldn't be the Alaska connection with the right shoulder patch and ribbon bar. Granted the sewing isn't probably the best on the patches but not every soldier was a seamstress or Tailor. Plus why make up a uniform just to sell 4:40 or $50 when the price of the wings alone this far with that on their own.As Louie stated he has gotten things out of the mill for years and at that time you could often find things with full insignia on them just like at the Goodwill stores. Now it seems everything is stripped off.

[louie]

Another hint this isn't a recent fake, is rust! Yes, rust on the threads of the ovals wing where it over the years rubbed off from the ribbon bar. Now, if someone made this up for a play, I give him credit for a darn good put together seeing all the stuff seems to be right, though quite boring.

[Trevor M. Larson]

I've seen this combo of Alaska defense command, and replacement command. Good chance it's 1st battalion 4th infantry regiment, they went up to attu and then went to fort benning where they did train troops including paratroopers, I'll have to dig them up but I have articles from the 4th where they mention training the 555 PIR.....maybe a few got jump qualified to teach other soldiers? How many overseas stripes does it have? An Attu vet with the 4th should have a minimum of two.

[louie]

Yes, it has 3 overseas bars on it.

[Trevor M. Larson]

Here's an IDed 1st battalion 4th infantry regiment looks very similar, even the same style Alaska patch

[louie]

Here is mine. It is the same with the exception of para wings instead of a CIB.

[Trevor M. Larson]

Is there any rust marks of where a CIB could have been? Same with the presidential unit citation?

[louie]

No, no rust stains for a CIB or PUC. He might of had one, but I don't see anything on it for sure. With the laundry number any roster that might have him?

[louie]

Here is the right side of the blouse.

[jguy1986]

No, no rust stains for a CIB or PUC. He might of had one, but I don't see anything on it for sure.

 

Any holes on the pocket flap? I always have more luck seeing any evidence of holes when checking the woven material behind the wool side of a jacket. It seems that families tend to keep a CIB but get rid of the uniform with everything else on it. Of course, maybe he never had one.

[Trevor M. Larson]

1st battalion 4th infantry was held in reserve during the battle of attu, I know at least A Company saw action (for which they were awarded a unit citation) not sure if the other companies saw action in attu, timeframe wise to have gone up to alaska and came back with 3 stripes he would have had to enlisted very early 42 or late 41. That should narrow down who this could be quick

[swmdo]

Interesting discussion. I learned something from it.