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Indochina French TAP lizard pattern


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#1 ARVNcollector

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 08:31 PM

Greetings All,

 

I enjoyed your previous thread on this topic but am still not very good at discerning which patterns were used in Vietnam.  Would you please give me your thoughts on these pants?  

 

french TAP pnts1 ed.JPG french TAP pnts3ed.JPG french TAP pnts2ed.JPG french TAP pnts4ed.JPG

 

Thank you in advance,

Alan

 

 



#2 Mike Force

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:35 AM

not a indochina war pattern, this cut first show up in the late algeria war! not a realy collectible but nice to wear for autdoor activity.

#3 Andrei

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:52 AM

They are starting to get hard to find. They don't fetch high prices but the day they will get off radar, everyone will be sorry.



#4 Andrei

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:53 AM

Those are genuine Algeria War late issue.


Edited by Andrei, 04 August 2014 - 04:53 AM.


#5 Mike Force

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:00 AM

yes they getting more and more hard to find.... back in the 80's and early 90's the militaria shops in germany had tons of them in any size and conditon!

at the time you could find a medium-long piece in great/mint condition for about 10 to 20$.
I enjoy to wear them because the cut and fabric fills very comfortable.



#6 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:25 AM

Pattern was used in Vietnam 100% .

And Laos

And Cambodia.

 

And by US advisors in both Asia and Europe during the 1960s and 70s .

 

owen 



#7 Mike Force

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:12 PM

LoooL.... ;) but its still far away from the  47/51, 47/52 and the  47/53 pattern!


Edited by Mike Force, 04 August 2014 - 12:15 PM.


#8 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:33 PM

Your point is ?


#9 Andrei

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:00 PM

There is a couple of pictures of the late pattern of léopard camo used in SEA, lightweight cut. The most famous is Ken Bowra wearing a TTA 47 allégée camo shirt in Laos or Cambodia, can't remember.



#10 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

not a indochina war pattern, this cut first show up in the late algeria war! not a realy collectible but nice to wear for autdoor activity.



A sweeping statement like this is wrong and we all know with Vietnam anything is possible.

The Vietnamese themselfs even copied the 56 pattern for uniforms.

Owen

#11 ARVNcollector

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:29 PM

Thank you gentlemen,

 

I really enjoyed your discussion.  Is there a good reference with photos, nomenclature and theater usage history?  (other than the link on your previous french lizard thread)

 

My appreciation to you all,

Alan



#12 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:44 PM

Burrows did a famous photo essay.
I have original 56 Viet pictures for my Cammo book along with uniforms.


#13 Spike

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:53 PM

It was Cambodia Andrei.



#14 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:28 PM

Posted Image

A famous pic by Burrows.
1962.
As the war went on the 56 became more common.

Note the modified 54 uniforms.


#15 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:30 PM

Posted Image

And here's Vietnamese made lizard 56

#16 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:33 PM

Posted Image

And here's Viet issue hand me downs to a US advisor who wore this during several of his tours.



#17 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:41 PM

I also have pictures of said US advisor wearing the French Cammo uniform in country.


#18 kammo-man

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:45 PM

Posted Image

Viets in 56

Impossible to say if French or Vietnamese manufacture

Owen

#19 ARVNcollector

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:22 PM

Thanks Owen,

 

Awesome photos!  It makes more sense to me now.  When I wore my '54 jump jacket to the march with the Nhay Du vets at the Tet festival, some of them kept telling me that the ones they wore had elastic bands at the cuffs.  I did not know at the time what they were talking about.  Does your '56 have elastic cuffs?

 

Alan



#20 Klaxon

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:00 PM

Owen,
What type of material is the Viet made 56 lizard you posted printed on? I have a two square pocket utility type shirt that has no markings and is printed on a soft sateen type fabric.
Wondering if that's the same as yours.
Cheers,
Matt

#21 Andrei

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:06 PM

eganupyb.jpg

And here's Viet issue hand me downs to a US advisor who wore this during several of his tours.

 

Looks like pattern 47/53 to me.
 



#22 Andrei

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:47 PM

DSC04719.JPG

 

Laos 1974, young Meo partisan in Tenue TTA 47 allegee in pattern 47/54 or 47/56. I am not very good at recognizing the different patterns in B&W pictures.

The shoulder reinforcement pads seem to be made of a different camo fabric.

The lightweight shirts (two pockets) 2nd model with the shoulder reinforcements are sometimes made of mismatched camo for the pads. A 47/52 camo shirt with 47/51camo shoulder pads is a real beauty !



#23 Andrei

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:56 PM

DSC04721.JPG

 

Laos 1960s, Plaine de Jarres. An american case officer and a french Service Action NCO with Kong Le partisans. The french NCO is a veteran of Indochina and former GCMA commando. To this day, this the only known to me published picture of a french special forces advisor in SEA after the french war.

There is another one of a Quatermaster NCO dressed in kakis in the cambodian jungle.

The partisan in french camo standing the French is dressed in custom tailored fatigues made from 47/56 fabric.

The French supplied camo uniforms to the Laotians. There is a very well known pic of general Vang Pao with a 47/56 TAP smock. I don't think he's wearing a vietnamese made one.



#24 kammo-man

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:16 PM

It's 54
Shown for color difference

#25 kammo-man

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:50 PM

Mat
Post your piece
O


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