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Non Airborne useage of M1A1 Carbine by regular GIs


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#51 patches

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 06:34 PM



I'm would like to see you back that up, I've never been under that impression for ww2 at all, I can't think of any major images showing airborne using standard stocks, besides early stateside training photos, before the m1a1 production numbers got up there and issued out. I honestly think it would be quite a rarity to see airborne fielding a full stocked standard M1 carbine, I think it would only be in the case of a battlefield pickup, but I could always be wrong

Here you go trench here's one.

 

easy1.jpg

The Netherlands, E Co 506th PIR Sept-Oct 44.



#52 Ronny67

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 11:16 AM

Not sure that leaf is regulation...

 

 

Airborne, 503rd PIR in the Pacific, note his M2 helmet with straps. 



#53 Ronny67

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 11:22 AM

I'm would like to see you back that up, I've never been under that impression for ww2 at all, I can't think of any major images showing airborne using standard stocks, besides early stateside training photos, before the m1a1 production numbers got up there and issued out. I honestly think it would be quite a rarity to see airborne fielding a full stocked standard M1 carbine, I think it would only be in the case of a battlefield pickup, but I could always be wrong

 

Early in the war, right at the beginning of the US Airborne with the original members of the 503rd PIR, standard M1 carbines were all they could get. The M1A1 was issued too late for the 503rd. The 503rd shipped to England for advanced training with M1 carbines, and then made 3 combat jumps in North Africa with only M1 Carbines. Check out these pictures of 2/503rd PIR (Later the 509th PIB) in England, 1942-43. First is Col. Edison Raff, the first comander of the 509th speaking with the first lady.

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#54 Ronny67

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 11:25 AM

Here is one of the original members of 2/503, who was issued a standard M1 carbine before departure for England in 1942. This photo was taken before the jump into Southern France, so he carried his M1 all the way from north Africa, through Italy and into Dragoon. Yes, airborne troopers utilized standard M1 carbines from their very conception. 

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#55 AZPhil

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 01:05 PM

Ronny,

 In the pic of Col. Edison Raff, the first comander of the 509th speaking with the first lady. What type of bayonet is he sporting on that M1 Carbine?

 Semper Fi

Phil



#56 PFC Red

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 01:56 PM

The bayonet and bayonet atachement sported by Raff, should be some sort of a home-made one. Surely other members will be able to give more info. Sorry for the OT.
 

Other pics of 2/509th PIB in Africa, notice the regular stock-M1 Carbines
126339s.jpg

2ngvd5x.jpg



#57 ThompsonSavage

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 11:46 PM

What type of bayonet is he sporting on that M1 Carbine?

 

 

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#58 Ronny67

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 09:04 AM

 

 

 

Its a rare early bayonet design that pre-dated the M4 bayonet. It was unsuitable for combat and was dropped. The 509th got a few before they left for England.



#59 AZPhil

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 08:10 AM

Thank You Gents for your replies

 Semper Fi

Phil



#60 patches

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 09:04 AM

Here,s a late war sighting of the standard M1 being carried by a paratrooper.

 

 

502nd PIR 45.jpg

 

Gen Maxwell Taylor with I believe Co A 502nd PIR, Alsace, Late January 1945, the 101 having been sent south to Alsace to rest and rebuild, albeit briefly. The Officer with it is I believe a Platoon Leader.



#61 patches

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 07:55 AM

AND...A one more standard carbine in use.

 

rszscan WESEL.jpg

 

 

WESEL, March 1945, believe these troops are from the 194th Glider Infantry, still I imagine the M1A1 was issued in enough quantity in a GIR, that the issuance of the standard M1 would be somewhat rare. Makes me wonder on the issuance of the M1A1 Paratrooper Carbine in the support units of a WWII Airborne Division, you know like the Signal, Quartermaster Ordnance Companies ET AL, seems to me that they were not issued this one, but rather the standard M1.



#62 cgutierrez

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 11:28 AM

My Father-In-Law was with the 194th GIR during operation Varsity and he was issued a standard length M1.  I once asked him how it was decided who would receive an M1 Carbine or M1A1 Carbine or a Garand and he told me that the first wave was issued M1A1s, the second wave was issued M1 Carbines and the third wave was issued Garands.  Granted, he is in his 80s and his memory is not always on target, but there might be something to why one soldier would have an M1A1 and the next a standard length carbine.  He was with the 513th PIR during the Battle of the Bulge and carried a standard length M1 Carbine there also.

 

CG



#63 Ronny67

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 03:49 PM

 

Its a rare early bayonet design that pre-dated the M4 bayonet. It was unsuitable for combat and was dropped. The 509th got a few before they left for England.

 

This is false. I need to correct myself: 

 

Upon arrival in England Edson Raff realized the need for a bayonet for his carbine. This speaks to Raff's the flamboyant bravado of Edson Raff. Of course he needed a bayonet! He had this example made locally in England. I know he jumped with it into North Africa, after that the trail goes cold. 



#64 SFMike

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 07:30 PM

Any comment from the basement commando who wanted my statement on military practices "backed up?"

 

My father was 506th PIR and carried a full stock carbine and a Garand at other times.

 

I have been associated with paratroopers all my life.

 

I was Distinguishd Honor Graduate BAC, in 1967.

 

I did two tours inVN with SF.

 

My 1st issued piece there was a M2 Carbine.  They were almost the most commonly seen pieces carried by Indigenous guys until we flooded the place with 16s later on.

 

I never saw an MiA1 ovr ther, but certainly they would be around but probably pretty worn out.

I have seen entire Montagnard compaiesarmed with MP 40s.

 

Folks who never bothered to serve in the militaryhave no understanding of the often random and arbitrary nature of the military and its practices.

 

Often who gets issued what is a matter of where they were on a certain day when a certain event or supply mission took place..

A view of things in terms of "cookie cutter" practises is unrealistic.  Especially, but not limited to something of the vast order of WW2.

 

Demanding a backup is a bit much, but I'll consider the source.



#65 ccyooper

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 08:43 AM

To echo SFMike,  just look at any of Detrez's or other WWII airborne books and you will see many pages of troopers using full length stocks during all phases of the war.  And if you want to see Hollywood check out the First Airborne Task Force book, while most uniforms were standard within units in the north, the southern paratroopers wore and GI'd just about everything.  Cut off stocks, Thompson's without stocks, modified brass handled fighting knives, holsters, painted uniforms, and the list goes on for non-standard stuff, etc.,


Edited by ccyooper, 01 November 2015 - 08:44 AM.


#66 rocksome

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 01:12 PM

hope you don't mind, off topic, but my dad(served in Korea) purchased a GI carbine once thru the mail form the NRA, cheap too, it has the bayonet lug, so this was probably used/issued after WW2 ?



#67 patches

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 06:20 PM

Another 5th Rangers sighting, this time during the war, early 1945, man in center is armed with the M1A1 as we see, note the continued wear of te SUNOCO patch.

 

rsz_1rsz_carbine.jpg


Edited by patches, 05 February 2020 - 06:21 PM.


#68 B24AT6

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 06:29 AM

Patches great picture, though I believe the man in the center is armed with a M1A1 Bazooka not a M1A1 Carbine.

#69 BILL THE PATCH

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 06:59 AM

Well the is no middle guy actually, it's second from right or left. Second from left looks like a bazooka, second from right looks like a grease gun. I don't see a carbine anywhere. Looks like a m-1 leaning on table with bayonet attached, right side.

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#70 BILL THE PATCH

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 07:01 AM

Wait a minute, the second from left looks like the bottom side of the stock grip. Bottom left, it's turn upwards. And the guy on the far left actually has the bazooka I believe

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#71 ccyooper

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 07:18 AM

The second from left is a bazooka grip. The sling attaches to the bottom of the grip and you can see the metal guard as well as the flat triangular trigger. I assume the Garand on the left leaning against the table is the far lefts individual weapon

Edited by ccyooper, 06 February 2020 - 07:23 AM.


#72 BILL THE PATCH

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 07:49 AM

I see that, what about the guy on the far left, with his thumb in the sling. What kind of weapon do you suppose he has. Could it be a Thompson?, Looks like a small barrel poking up behind his shoulder

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#73 patches

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 08:57 AM

Damn. Yeah all of you are right,  I got tricked :lol: I noticed the Bazooka, thought it was being carried by the one on the far left at the end, the sling over his shoulder being for the bazooka. A great photo at any rate, an additional view of a Luger right, shoved in the bib of the one n the Air Corps jacket second from the left .



#74 patches

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 09:25 PM



They were used in Vietnam, first by the French of course, and later by a hand full of Advisors, Green Berets etc, in the early period, and I believe by Chopper Pilots and Crewman here and there.

Speaking of Vietnam, here's one I found this morning of Green Berets in 1965 or 66, one of whom carries the M1A1 Carbine.

 

vietnam.jpg



#75 Trevor M. Larson

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 06:39 AM

Might be slightly off topic but if you look at photos of the raid at canabantuan and the raid at Los Baños youll see Filipino guerrillas armed with m1a1s


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