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EGA "roller's"


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#1 Brig

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 02:56 PM

Here's another pair from the show, also 25 bucks. Has the same rollers as the service emblems, however it is unmarked and have never had retaining pins. Was wondering if maybe these are unmarked Meyers? I think because of the rollers they're post-WWII, maybe to the same man but were mized in a large lot of various emblems so I have no way to ever know that. Very nice matched pair regardless. What do you guys think?
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s242/brigusmc/Misc/M37DressMeyerFront.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s242/brigusmc/Misc/M37DressMeyerRear.jpg

#2 Jeremiah

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 03:27 PM

Those rollers actually look like earlier types, say from the '26 pattern birds. Do they overlap the edge of the globes?

yes, but so did the rollers on the Meyers ones I posted last night

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 18 April 2008 - 09:13 AM.


#3 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 08:36 PM

Jeremiah - I was going to say they look more like the Army type rollers found on WWII two-piece collar discs. The rollers on these EGA's dont seem to have the concave centers like those found on earlier EGA's, as in 1920's and 1930's. One things for sure, they aren't the type found on Meyer EGA's.

Tim - Without hallmarks, it's hard to say if they are from a certain maker, but they do have what appear to be the classic eagle heads found on the Meyer hallmarked EM emblems, dont they?

Here are some Army collar discs with, I think, the same rollers as those on the dress birds. Rest of the photos are of the Meyer rollers found on war-time and post-war EGA's. The Meyer rollers are perfectly flat on the outer side and have a completely different flange set-up on the inner side. Meyer rollers should line up perfectly with the globe edge of collar emblems when tightened down.

Gary

Attached Images

  • ARMY_ROLLERS_01.jpg
  • MEYER_ROLLERS_03.jpg
  • MEYER_ROLLERS_01.jpg
  • MEYER_ROLLERS_02.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 13 August 2008 - 08:15 AM.
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#4 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:40 AM

The subject of "period correct rollers" and what rollers should be "correct for a specific EGA" comes up quite often during the discussion of EGA varieties. Quite often these gems are lost and or simply misplaced which requires their replacement, one of reasons the "specific roller" correct for a "specific EGA" and or period of use comes up here. Obviously the one size fits all rule generally applies to EGA's and roller's. In many instances the incorrect "variety specific or period specific" roller can diminish the value of a pair of EGA's. Advanced and intermediate collectors will likely insist their EGA's are fitted with the specific roller that was made for the EGA... or at least period correct. For those completing a uniform this is generally not an issue... so long as it is the correct EGA.

The few I will show here are unique examples of the mid WW2 period and immediately there after, were used on the Econo-lead variety & late war enlisted issue emblems, first up the flat flower roller, seen almost exclusively on the store card Econo lead emblems. This one appears to be made from brass or similiar...

Attached Images

  • EGA_rollers_001.jpg


#5 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:41 AM

and is 5/8ths in diameter and cupped on the other side

Attached Images

  • EGA_rollers_003.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 07 January 2008 - 09:43 AM.


#6 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:54 AM

These zinc rollers are seen allot, in the late war and shortly thereafter as it most closely associated with the period the strategic metals imitative came about. It is also seen of the Marine Officer emblems of the period as well. It was used on both cap & collar emblems, in place of the brass variety. I presume these were not used for very long after the war, as the zinc composite did not stand up to cross threading, long term wear or use

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  • EGA_rollers_007.jpg


#7 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:58 AM

Only 1/8th in thickness, this is difficult to get a firm fit with the washer in place on a Barracks Cover.

Attached Images

  • EGA_rollers_008.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 07 January 2008 - 10:00 AM.


#8 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 10:01 AM

One from this era that is unusual, found on a unmolested unmarked store card variety Econo-lead emblem, it is a very thick planchet on a unusually long threaded post. The inside of the roller is significantly recessed as well.

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  • EGA_rollers_004.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 07 January 2008 - 10:06 AM.


#9 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 10:01 AM

with the extra long post and 3/8th" thick roller, that emblem was not coming off without help ;)

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  • EGA_rollers_005.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 07 January 2008 - 10:08 AM.


#10 Brig

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 01:01 PM

Here're two H&H emblems I've recently obtained. On the left is a nice sterling example, rear marked sterling and H&H. The roller is there, but stripped, won't roll too far down. The patina is great. Second one is brass, roller works, rear marked H&H. However, inside the anchor is also marked 'SER. 209'. Does this help date it better? I imagine it'd make finding a mate more difficult, but I like the varient.


Edited by Brig, 12 May 2014 - 05:04 PM.


#11 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 07:44 PM

Tim,

The roller nut on the sterling H&H is the wrong one for that emblem. Those particular WWII sterling officer emblems were equipped with the 6-pointed zinc "flower" rollers, so if it's only the roller nut that is stripped or wont roll, get rid of it and try the zinc 6-pointer. Sometimes, you can get away with using the 12-pointed zinc "flower" rollers that came on WWII EM emblems, but if you try that and it doesn't even begin to roll on, don't try it, just find a 6-pointer. If the sterling screw post threads are slightly stripped or misshapened from having the wrong roller, the zinc roller should be strong enough to rethread or reshape the threads. If the screw threads are too far gone, you can find a special die set that goes that small and have it rethreaded. These old sterling birds are worth saving, so get that roller off of it now. The roller that's on it looks like an earlier one from maybe 1920's if I'm seeing it correctly, so see if it rolls onto one of your 1920 emblems. Same thing with this roller if the threads are stripped. You can find a tap that goes that small and rethread it.

The H&H with the SER. 209 hallmark is post Korean War and about the same period as when the alpha-numeric maker's codes came about. You can find this SER 209 code, SER 365 code and SER 395 code on many mid to late 1950's - early 1960's USMC emblems, shooting badges, tie clasps, etc. I personally don't believe they have anything to do with the alpha-numeric or numeric-alpha codes, but most likely something H&H did internally because they only appear to be on H&H insignia. If anyone knows why H&H used them, please share the information.

s/f, Gary

Here is the correct roller (left) you'll be looking for on the sterling H&H. You can try the 12-pointer, but dont force it.

Attached Images

  • FLOWER_ROLLERS.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 13 August 2008 - 08:15 AM.
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#12 Brig

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 03:21 PM

After much comparrison with the Meyers marked garrison emblems, I'm fairly certain these are unmarked Meyers, most likely post-war as with the marked pair. The heads are similar, the rollers are the larger ones associated with Meyers, and the finish is glossier. Unless anyone has evidence otherwise, I'm going to chalk these up to being between post-WWII and Korea

#13 USMCRECON

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:23 PM

I just got these in the mail yesterday. They are marked sterling and have the Meyer shield on the back of the eagle's body and Meyer-marked. They look WW-II style to me but they have brass rollers rather than the war materials zinc. The wings of both eagles have been bent back considerably. Only two pics would fit so I'll follow up with the picture of the bent back wings in another post.

EGA1.JPG

EGA2.JPG



#14 USMCRECON

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:24 PM

Here's a top view of one of the EGAs showing the modified Eagle's wings.

EGA3.JPG



#15 Jeremiah

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:34 PM

Nice pieces Bill! I do like the NS Meyer '37 pattern. They look prewar or wartime with replaced rollers to me as well. Love the bold landmasses!

#16 bobgee

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:35 PM

Very nice! I agree with Jeremiah!
Semper Fi....Bobgee

#17 usmcaviator

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 03:21 PM

Jeremiah,

What do you mean by replaced rollers? These look like the correct rollers to me.
S/F,
Mike

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 13 August 2008 - 08:06 AM.
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#18 Bob Hudson

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 03:36 PM

I think he may have been thinking about the zinc rollers that came with issue EGA's during the war. I would assume that this would have been a private purchase piece and would not have had zinc rollers? Is that correct Major Mike?

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 13 August 2008 - 08:07 AM.
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#19 Jeremiah

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 07:18 PM

Mike, Bob H is correct. I should have been more specific and stated zinc rollers. Sorry for the confusion!

#20 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 02:29 AM

I suppose to the real purist, this may be an "issue", however to see this type of roller on the mid-war emblem should not be "that big of deal". Upon starting the thread pinned in the EGA discussion area called "the correct and not so correct type & use" we are providing examples of the emblem with various roller types and use. For all whom are not aware, all uniforms and accoutrement's owned by Marine Officers are indeed private purchase.

The example Bill provides for us is simply an example of a set of collar emblems with "most likely" came with the zinc rollers. These rollers as all are aware were part of the strategic metals programs of WW2, to that end, the emblem itself reflects upon these initiatives; being constructed of Sterling components vice the traditional bronze.

These brass rollers were likely replacements, as is often the case the zinc ones often showed a poor ability to hold a good thread pattern (and fit snuggly), or became an issue with staining of the garment or were simply inadvertently misplaced. It makes perfect sense to obtain a new set of rollers... than to buy a new set of collar emblems.

These Meyer examples have great "character" as the intricate design of the applied continents really shows off the emblem. Bill, thanks for sharing with us! s/f Darrell

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 13 August 2008 - 08:07 AM.
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#21 USMCRECON

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 05:14 AM

Thank you all for your comments on these EGAs. I did look through the "Rollers" thread before posting my EGAs. After looking at the examples posted there, I was pretty sure the rollers were original EGA rollers. I was just not sure they were original to THESE particular sterling EGAs.

I wasn't sure if these might have been originally of the immediate pre-war era before the strategic metals program was enacted or if they were later war manufactured and someone has replaced the rollers with legitimate but earlier ones.

I don't know enough about the intricacies of EGAs and was wondering if there might have been some subtle way or determining if these were of the immediate pre-war era or war years production with replaced, but authentic brass rollers.

I also like the style that has the continents standing proud of the globe. I have a handful of sets of this particular style. All but one of the others are bronze, though and this is only the second pair with proud continents that I have in sterling.

#22 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 05:39 AM

Bill, to my understanding (PM's early on w/ Gary) these did initially go to the uniform shops with the brass roller until their on hand stocks were exhausted and the conversion was made. I suspect Jeremiah might very well know if there are any tell-tale signs of pre or post war production?

Further, there is a thread here: http://www.usmilitar...?showtopic=5424 which has a good bit of information about the finishing processes for emblems & keepers.

s/f Darrell

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 13 August 2008 - 08:08 AM.
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#23 USMCRECON

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:37 PM

Thanks Darrell!!

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 13 August 2008 - 08:09 AM.
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#24 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 08:24 AM

Has anyone seen this roller used on an EGA other than the econ-lead? Please post, thx

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  • post_376_1199729009.jpg


#25 Brig

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 07:03 AM

probably the same as mine, only mine was silver...Army post-war type


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