Mr-X Posted November 28, 2010 Share #1 Posted November 28, 2010 Hi everyone. I was wondering if some of you might be able to help me out. I am looking for period photographs that show First World War US Army Officers wearing British Army Sam Browne belts. I am preferably looking for portrait style photographs but any will do. Thanks in advance. :thumbsup: Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIl Sanow Posted November 28, 2010 Share #2 Posted November 28, 2010 How exactly do you define a Sam Browne belt as being British? What characteristics are you seeking? G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robswashashore Posted November 28, 2010 Share #3 Posted November 28, 2010 Leigh, not to ask a "Stoopid Question" here, but, Are British Sam Browne belts different from US Sam Brown belts? I have lots of photos of my Granddad (1st Lt.) overseas in France during WWI and he is wearing a Sam Browne belt, but are there different kinds? I'll be happy to dig them up and post them if this is what you need. (Actually, if you look over at my avatar that is what the belt looks like. Did the Brits have their own style?) Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robswashashore Posted November 28, 2010 Share #4 Posted November 28, 2010 Ah, see, I'm not the only one who wondered, and the other guy is a Moderator!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 28, 2010 Share #5 Posted November 28, 2010 Here you go! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Browne_belt Sabrejet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share #6 Posted November 28, 2010 Good questions guys. From my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, officers of the US Army did not wear Sam Browne belts until they got to Europe and saw their fellow allied officers wearing them. Officers of the AEF then started to wear them. I would assume that they would have initially started wearing foreign belts, presumably British made belts. Not necessarily British issue belts but possibly those sold by officers out fitters. Were there any US made Same Browne belts made during the First World War? If so how did these belts differ from British belts? There is a good reference on British belts HERE and HERE Some British Belts were only made for a single cross over shoulder strap. Others were made to have two shoulder straps and could be worn with either two straps on just the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share #7 Posted November 28, 2010 In the ad for the March Military Equipment Company shown below you will see an American Sam Browne belt.I believe this particular ad dates from between the wars.Notice how this belt has no sword rings or hook on the left hand front of the belt. This is bacause it uses a removable Saber Chain Slide system. Also shown in the ad.Compare that belt to the British 1916 dated belt in my collection. (Note this belt is made for two shoulder straps but is fitted with only one.) You can see one of the sword loops under the cross strap and the sword hook mounted to the left hand side of the belt.Now compare both belts to the following picture of General Pershing. Note the Sword rings on he left of the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robswashashore Posted November 28, 2010 Share #8 Posted November 28, 2010 Wow, learn something every day! No sword rings or hooks on Grand Dad's Sam Browne! American I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars&thunder Posted November 29, 2010 Share #9 Posted November 29, 2010 I have a Sam Browne belt that came out of an estate sale with a uniform grouping of a US Captain in the 78th Division. His belt is marked as sold by R. J. Inglis Limited Military Outfitters Montreal Winnipeg. So he may have ordered it in the US (he was from Watertown NY which is very close to the Canadian border) or perhaps this seller had them for sale in Europe as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLHSS Posted November 29, 2010 Share #10 Posted November 29, 2010 Leigh, Is this what you're looking for? If so, I know I can find more and better examples in my unit histories. Let me know .... Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share #11 Posted November 29, 2010 Yes Tim that is the sort of thing I am looking for. I would prefer field grade officers but at this stage I dont care. I am trying to get an idea of how prevelent British type belts were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted November 29, 2010 I have a Sam Browne belt that came out of an estate sale with a uniform grouping of a US Captain in the 78th Division. His belt is marked as sold by R. J. Inglis Limited Military Outfitters Montreal Winnipeg. So he may have ordered it in the US (he was from Watertown NY which is very close to the Canadian border) or perhaps this seller had them for sale in Europe as well. Can I trouble you for pic of that belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIl Sanow Posted November 29, 2010 Share #13 Posted November 29, 2010 Bingo! That is my understanding also. The US-made belts -- '20's and later -- used a detachable hanger with a sword chain. The British sword was hung on two loops with leather straps, and had a hook on the belt itself. It is my understanding that the Sam Browne belt was adopted by the Allies as a universally recognizable symbol of officer status. The Pre-War US sword belt was a simple garrison belt without a shoulder strap. In the 1920's, we also adopted a double strap version for field use -- many belts of this era will have the second brass ring atop the belt in the back and a second slider for the other cross belt. GOOD DISCUSSION! G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted November 29, 2010 Share #14 Posted November 29, 2010 This is Dr. John Freed, who served with the 78th Division: This link will take you to thread that I started on his uniform group: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...mp;hl=gillespie If you need better photos of the belt, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagjetta Posted November 29, 2010 Share #15 Posted November 29, 2010 Hi everyone. I was wondering if some of you might be able to help me out. I am looking for period photographs that show First World War US Army Officers wearing British Army Sam Browne belts. I am preferably looking for portrait style photographs but any will do. Thanks in advance. :thumbsup: Leigh Hi Leigh, Attached is a photo from my collection of a lieutenant wearing the style of belt you requested. John A-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagjetta Posted November 29, 2010 Share #16 Posted November 29, 2010 Here's one of a female auxilliary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagjetta Posted November 29, 2010 Share #17 Posted November 29, 2010 Here's one of a Red Cross member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagjetta Posted November 29, 2010 Share #18 Posted November 29, 2010 Here's one of a YMCA guy without cross strap but with the loops for sword attachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagjetta Posted November 29, 2010 Share #19 Posted November 29, 2010 The officer in this group of Ambulance Company No. 70 men is wearing the pattern belt you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share #20 Posted November 30, 2010 Thanks guys, for the all the great photographs. Keep them coming if you have any more. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share #21 Posted November 30, 2010 I wonder if any of our forum members might have a picture of a British type Sam Browne with a pistol holster? In theory it could have been possible using the 'Holster, Canteen, First aid or Bayonet slide' of the Garrison belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Apathy Posted November 30, 2010 Share #22 Posted November 30, 2010 In the ad for the March Military Equipment Company shown below you will see an American Sam Browne belt.I believe this particular ad dates from between the wars. Notice how this belt has no sword rings or hook on the left hand front of the belt. This is bacause it uses a removable Saber Chain Slide system. Also shown in the ad. Hi leigh, I own a copy of the March Equipment catalog, not certain where you picked up the copy advert above and whether it was one I have posted here on another forum topic sometime, if so then my copy is dated 1941-1942. lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share #23 Posted November 30, 2010 Hi leigh, I own a copy of the March Equipment catalog, not certain where you picked up the copy advert above and whether it was one I have posted here on another forum topic sometime, if so then my copy is dated 1941-1942. lewis I picked the picture up up doing an internet search on Sam Browne belts. Thanks Lewis for helping to date the ad. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakkasan187 Posted November 30, 2010 Share #24 Posted November 30, 2010 Leigh, I just received my monthly copy of MILITARY TRADER and there was an interesting article about the Sam Browne Belt in the December issue. It may be worth looking into and maybe you can get in touch with the author of the article. Leigh... (PS, kind of strange writing my name in the heading and again in the conclusion of the letter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars&thunder Posted December 1, 2010 Share #25 Posted December 1, 2010 You requested photos of the Sam Browne I have to a 78th Division Captain; the belt was from a Canadian outfitter. Here are photos. If you have any questions, let me know. Regards - Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now