gunbarrel Posted July 26, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 26, 2009 Greg Robinson and I were discussing the subject shirt being auctioned off you-know-where and since we had not seen one before, we turned to USMF member Jeff Warner (giconceptsjw) for his opinion on it. With Jeff's permission I'm posting his response. I'm also posting below photos of the shirt for future reference. Thanks, Jeff, for your help! Here's what I know: USMC work uniforms were made of denim material just like modern jeans. The army used the same material for their work outfits. Both the army & USMC used brown denim in the WWI period until the 1930's. The army & USMC seem to have changed from brown denim to blue denim at about the same time in the early 1930's. In the early 1940's both the army & USMC dropped the blue denim work outfits in favor of green HBT material. The army used a few different denim uniform styles. One had a full button front with two patch pockets low on the front. Another style was a pullover with three buttons from the neck down to about mid-way of the front. This also had side entry pockets. Basically, these were the same style as the item in the auction you're looking at. Virtually all of the USMC designs had two lower patch pockets and a single upper patch pocket just like on the WWII HBT utilities. Basically, the item in the e-bay auction is not black but dark blue. It is not chambray but it is obviously denim. It is in a style & pattern used only by the army but has USMC buttons. My opinion? Well, virtually all of the army & USMC denim items I have seen (both brown & blue) had white or very light tan stitching throughout. The only denim items I have seen with dark blue matching thread (like on this item) were the current reproduction denim outfits that are available now. Also, What Price Glory, SM Wholesale & WWII Impressions will sell you a jar full of USMC metal press stud buttons that look identical to the originals so they aren't difficult to get. To me, this item looks like a modern reproduction army blue denim work shirt with the army buttons removed and replaced with USMC buttons. The stenciled letters above the pocket look like they were carefully applied yesterday as well. I'm on the go right now but I can send you a number of pics of original army & USMC denim work outfits in both brown & blue. Give me a day to get them to you. Also, feel free to post this on the forum if you like. Thanks! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunbarrel Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share #2 Posted July 26, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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kammo-man Posted July 27, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 27, 2009 Gunbarel . Go back and find a post I have done showing an original USMC denim shirt . My post was called USMC camouflage and other camouflage cammo items ..I think ? The USMC type is in fact very large in its cut and the denim is paper thin . This shirt looks like it came from Japan ..as a fashion item . owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfryar44 Posted July 27, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 27, 2009 I have personally inspected three original USMC demin tops and one one-piece USMC denim set. All came out of a pile of surplus clothing in a warehouse in the mid-1990's and were 100% real. They had steel USMC riveted buttons. Fellow collector friends of mine have them in their collections, I'll see if they'll send me some pictures. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted July 27, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 27, 2009 I just found some posted in my in my camouflage thread beside this owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddmod Posted July 28, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 28, 2009 Gunbarel .Go back and find a post I have done showing an original USMC denim shirt . My post was called USMC camouflage and other camouflage cammo items ..I think ? The USMC type is in fact very large in its cut and the denim is paper thin . This shirt looks like it came from Japan ..as a fashion item . owen I've handle / dealt with A LOT of vintage denim over the years, and that denim looks about as vintage to me as a Toyota Prius...... the stencil, the stitching, the color, everything looks all wrong to me. $0.02 JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted December 8, 2009 Share #17 Posted December 8, 2009 USMC switched to green one piece suits in 1939, but only the aviation units ended up being issued them. This was due to the large number of denim coats and trousers still in inventory. There was extensive examination of the lack of form fitting denim and one size fits all headaches associated with it. I have some excellent Quartermaster pics of the comparison and the green overall examined and adopted. The denim was also a company maintained and issued item. Essentially if it was your turn to paint the barracks you were issued the overalls and retunred them at the end of day. Blue denim was purchased in October of 1929 by the Marine Corps and several more lots were purchased after that from Batavia Mills, Lane Cotton Mills, and Hesslein & Co. There were a total of 7 contract purchases for 610,000 yards combined from 1929 up until the last purchase in July of 1938. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devildog34 Posted December 9, 2009 Share #18 Posted December 9, 2009 My grandfather recalls seeing a lot of guys who were washed out for various reasons including homosexuality issued these to where while they were being processed out. I wonder if that is what they were later used for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_tilt Posted December 9, 2009 Share #19 Posted December 9, 2009 i have several of the blue denim coverall jackets, two of which are the ones bfryar44 referred to, and each was modified to be a shooting jacket with elbow and shoulder pads. the pads were removed, but the thread and shadows are evident. i will post some pics this weekend. there are many historical photos of the jackets used on common work details, usually with bib front overall trousers, or overalls as commonly called. headgear is the same as worn with a normal uniform - visor, garrison, or field hat with egas. so these were most likely just typical work details and not punishment. i do recall a pic that i think alec had that showed several marines working in a field that seemed to be a punishment detail of some type. i am stretching my memory here but i think there were armed guards overseeing them. a friend of mine's father was career up into ww2 at least, and his dad told him that the blue denim was commonly worn on work details by all involved, no mention of punishment. i am sure that they were used to cloth prisoners of all types, but they were widely worn by all marines on work details without stigma attached. possibly at the very end of their supply availability they were relegated to this use, but early on they were worn by anyone doing a dirty job. i have yet to see pics of trousers without bib fronts being worn with these jackets. if anybody has some modern pics to post of the usmc trousers of any type, that would be a treat indeed. woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustykamel Posted December 9, 2009 Share #20 Posted December 9, 2009 Some of you might enjoy this old 1935 photograph picturing San Diego Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted December 9, 2009 Share #21 Posted December 9, 2009 Devil Dog ????????????????????????????? woody Lets see your new caps .... owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_tilt Posted December 9, 2009 Share #22 Posted December 9, 2009 thx Rustykamel, nice photo of the bib front trousers. no pockets on the bib and usually two front waist pockets that are probably patch pockets. probably steel usmc buttons like on the jacket and 1-pc coverall but have never seen them up close. i'll see if i can dig some pics up tonight after work. look at the fit of the garment on that front sitting marine, like wearing an over-sized denim garbage bag with sleeves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_tilt Posted December 10, 2009 Share #23 Posted December 10, 2009 here are my usmc denim shirts: all had shoulder and elbow patches sewn on and these two are the most obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_tilt Posted December 10, 2009 Share #24 Posted December 10, 2009 my two better ones, should have called them jackets or coats instead of shirts in the last post: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_tilt Posted December 10, 2009 Share #25 Posted December 10, 2009 and some details, especially of the denim itself, which is unique in the vintage denim world. it is light in weight with a weave and an indigo like not many other denims, lots of black in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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