What to look for in a Guidon

[CavalryCombatant]

Hi everybody, I’ll be going to the SOS here in a couple weeks & I’m really looking forward to it.  In preparing, I’ve been putting together a list of things that I’d like to get for my collection- one of the big ones is a Military Police guidon.

 

I know some of them have a QM tag on the inside sleeve, but is that definite?  I’m really shooting to get one from the 1960s since that’s what I primarily collect, but I’d be happy with just about any period! 
 

I can’t seem to find any info online about how to identify legit ones from PX/souvenir type, which there seems to be a lot more of!  I’d be very grateful for any information, or any references that’d get me headed in the right direction.  I’m also curious what I should expect to pay, I’m seeing some similar unit guidons listed in the $60-80 range, but they’re of different MOS’s.

 

Thanks so much,

CC

[Rakkasan187]

See if you can download a copy of Army Regulation 840-10: "Flags, Guidons, Streamers, Tabards, and Automobile and Aircraft Plates". AR840-10.pdf (army.mil). If you do a google search for: "flags and guidons regulation"... The first one that should come up is from the Center of Military History website. 

 

This is a decent guide/reference that details flag sizes, other dimensions and a whole list of other requirements. This particular regulation from the CMH website is also in color, so it adds some depth to the types of colors and guidons.

 

Best regards

 

Leigh 

 

 

 

[CavalryCombatant]

Thanks Leigh, I’ll do that!  I appreciate the help.

CC

[Rakkasan187]

CC,

 

When I have a few minutes, I will look in the museum library to see what other flag regulations and books we may have. I was doing some research a few years back and I know we have an older regulation that I was referencing when I was doing some research on a Divisional Flag that I believe was the first flag of the 1st Armored Division. 

 

Best regards

 

Leigh 

 

 

[Rakkasan187]

CC,

 

Here is a list of some of the earlier Army Regulations and their changes/updates from Pre-WW2, WW2 and through Korea and into the 1960s when the AR Changes to 840-10.

 

Yon may get lucky and find an online copy..

 

Hope this helps

 

Leigh 

 

 

[Mr.Jerry]

Here is kind of the "thing" with the guidons- Ideally you want an official issued one with the QM tag (and even better when they are dated) as there is no question about it.

BUT you will see many of the PX - retirement type that you mentioned. A lot of these were just made as one sided wall hangers, but some were done up as 2 sided as well. You see a wide variety of these in Wool, silk, satin, cotton, fringed, etc.  There are also MANY reproductions out there from NCHS (George Peterson) so you need to be careful.

 

Now to muddy the waters, there were some of these locally made ones that were indeed actually used- so sometimes it can be a leap of faith- but then again, sometimes you will see a photo of the flag in use! (like the one is your pic that doesn't look to be regulation size)

 

Prices can be all over, depending on the era, the unit and who is selling. I have paid $50-500 for some of my Guidons.

(I have an MP one from WWII that I still need to ID the unit. )

[CavalryCombatant]

On 2/14/2024 at 1:41 PM, Rakkasan187 said:

CC,

 

Here is a list of some of the earlier Army Regulations and their changes/updates from Pre-WW2, WW2 and through Korea and into the 1960s when the AR Changes to 840-10.

 

Yon may get lucky and find an online copy..

 

Hope this helps

 

Leigh 

 

 

Thanks for the follow up Leigh, I couldn’t see to find any of the earlier versions online but if I’m reading that right a post 1962 guidon would follow very similar regulations to the 1992 AR-840-10 that I was referencing.  
 

 

[CavalryCombatant]

1 hour ago, Mr.Jerry said:

Here is kind of the "thing" with the guidons- Ideally you want an official issued one with the QM tag (and even better when they are dated) as there is no question about it.

BUT you will see many of the PX - retirement type that you mentioned. A lot of these were just made as one sided wall hangers, but some were done up as 2 sided as well. You see a wide variety of these in Wool, silk, satin, cotton, fringed, etc.  There are also MANY reproductions out there from NCHS (George Peterson) so you need to be careful.

 

Now to muddy the waters, there were some of these locally made ones that were indeed actually used- so sometimes it can be a leap of faith- but then again, sometimes you will see a photo of the flag in use! (like the one is your pic that doesn't look to be regulation size)

 

Prices can be all over, depending on the era, the unit and who is selling. I have paid $50-500 for some of my Guidons.

(I have an MP one from WWII that I still need to ID the unit. )

So they’re like helmets- there’s no such thing as one right or wrong thing!  Are the George Peterson reproductions specifically WWI/WWII or are they also done off of newer guidons?

 

Im leaning towards being on the side of caution to start out & limiting myself to a QMC tagged example, I’m not sure how difficult it’ll be to find one but it may just wind up as a bucket list piece if I can’t pick one up at the SOS.  I’m also going to try and handle as many issued ones at the show as they’ll let me- so I can get a better idea what I’m looking for!

 

I’d love to see that WWII MP guidon, Jerry!
 

CC

[Mr.Jerry]

Took me a while to get at it!

833rd MP