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M1917A1 With Red Captains Bars


Nickman983
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I picked this one up a few days ago but just got a chance today to take some pictures. I was looking for an early manufactured M1917A1 to display along with my M1917 to M1917A1 retrofitted helmet and decided to take a chance on this one.

 

There are a few condition issues with this helmet, the liner is unfortunately in very poor shape with most of what remains being very fragile. There is also some heavy wear on the paint near the crown and I think that someone may have oiled this helmet at some point.

 

That being said, what really caught my attention was the Captain bars painted on the front and the relatively low lot number of 6A.

 

The chinstrap appears to have something stamped on it, but unfortunately whatever was stamped has become smudged and is hard to read. The inside has also been marked with either "PYICIE" or "PRICIE".

 

After running the rank under a black light and magnification I think it looks OK but I've attached some close ups of the wear on the paint and would appreciate a second opinion. I was also wondering if anyone had any ideas as to why red was used for the captain bars instead of the typical white? While poking around I came across a thread from a few years back where it was suggested the red Captains bars may be indicative of the owner being in artillery.

 

post-169952-0-52165500-1538979309_thumb.jpg

post-169952-0-87590800-1538979314.jpg

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I think the chinstrap says Robert Price I cant make out what is before it though. Nice helmet!

Great eye! Adjusted the colors a bit to try to get it to stand out more and it looks like you're correct. I still can't make out what is before his name either, looks like it may have been hand written. I also find it interesting that his last name is stamped as "PRICE" but "PRICIE" was scratched under the rim. Maybe just a mental lapse when writing his name, I would be lying if I said I've never done it myself!

 

Looks good to me! Might be USMC based on the Captain's insignia

Interesting, is it the style of the Captain's rank that makes you think it may be USMC? I would be interested in seeing another example known to belong to marine with similar styled rank if you happen to know of one. If not I'll end up poking around myself later this evening and see what I can find.

post-169952-0-30576100-1539010457_thumb.jpg

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If you look up "USMC Captain insignia", you'll see that the 2 vertical lines are closer to the top and bottom of the bars, like your helmet's insignia.

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Thanks for the info trenchfoot! I'll need to see if the seller can provide any information on where he obtained this helmet so I can try to start doing some research on who it may have belonged to.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So this may be a bit of a stretch, but what are the chances that this helmet belonged to Robert H. Price?

 

another link https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/309994

 

I was trying to do some research going off the name, rank and the assumption of the helmet belonging to a USMC soldier and in doing so I came across the Register of the commissioned and warrant officers of the United States Navy and Marine Corps and reserve officers on active duty

 

I'm not certain how complete this list is or if it's the best resource, but I searched the records during the war and there were only three different results Robert Price. All 3 I believe served in the navy rather than the USMC. One of the results was an Acting Pay Clerk while another had made Lt (jr .gr.) by 1943 and LT by 1944.

 

Looking at Robert H. Price's records in the register he shows up as:

an Ensign in the 1939 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015036626300;view=1up;seq=1016 (signal no. 6221)

Lt in 1942 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015036626292;view=1up;seq=232 (signal no. 6096)

Lt in 1943 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015036626284;view=1up;seq=120 (signal no. 5916)

Lt Cmdr in 1944 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015036626995;view=1up;seq=116 (signal no 5734)

and he is unfortunately listed in the deaths section of the 1945 register https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015036626987;view=1up;seq=591

 

to me the ranks/dates make sense with it the helmet being a M1971A1 but the fact that Robert H. Price was an officer in the Navy and was seemingly awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal make me uncertain that this is the right guy.

 

I'm interested in hearing some other people's thoughts on this

 

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Just a stretch here but I'm wondering if the captain's bars are really a red square ( as in USMC beach authorized personnel) with the center left unpainted to signify 2nd Lt. or Ensign ?

 

Larry

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Just a stretch here but I'm wondering if the captain's bars are really a red square ( as in USMC beach authorized personnel) with the center left unpainted to signify 2nd Lt. or Ensign ?

 

Larry

 

Hmm, I'm not sure, that's an interesting possibility. Any particular reason you think this might be the case?

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Hmm, I'm not sure, that's an interesting possibility. Any particular reason you think this might be the case?

 

Red Captain's bars I would think are rare, I mean why not just use white paint or real Captain's bars.

 

Larry

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Red Captain's bars I would think are rare, I mean why not just use white paint or real Captain's bars.

 

Larry

 

I would agree that red Captain's bars are rare, but I know there are some out there like in the thread I linked. I'm not certain why red would have been used, but if it was meant to be a red square with a Lt. or Ensign rank couldn't leaving the center unpainted instead of white or yellow cause some issues as the marking could be mistaken for that of a Captain? I'm really not sure, just spit balling some thoughts

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