usaf70 Posted May 26, 2017 Share #1 Posted May 26, 2017 What does everyone think of this CNAC wing that just went for over $1000? It doesn't look like the usual wing seen for this airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted May 26, 2017 Share #2 Posted May 26, 2017 I was watching it, too. Didn't have typical shield on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted May 27, 2017 Share #3 Posted May 27, 2017 Here are the images from the auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted May 27, 2017 Share #4 Posted May 27, 2017 Nothing like these on display at the Air Force museum in Dayton, Ohio. Maybe later post war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted May 27, 2017 Share #5 Posted May 27, 2017 I have no idea if it's genuine, but the hardware on it looks pretty convincing compared to some other theatre made wings (regular AAF, not CNAC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 27, 2017 Share #6 Posted May 27, 2017 Here is a photo of the wings of an American pilot who flew for CNAC during the war. His name was Barrington and these wings are still in the hands of his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 27, 2017 Share #7 Posted May 27, 2017 Here is a photo of another American pilot who flew for CNAC - this photo was taken in 1944 in Calcutta. If you look closely you can see that his wings are the same shield design as Barrington's wings are and are not the circular design like the one the OP is showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted May 27, 2017 Share #8 Posted May 27, 2017 http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/china/chinacnac.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 27, 2017 Share #9 Posted May 27, 2017 And there were many Chinese pilots who flew for CNAC as well. Here is a war time photo of Captain C.Y. Chan. It is a bit dark, but you can see that his wings are also the shield with the CNAC letters across the top design. Like the other photos I have just added, these are from the CNAC.org website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 27, 2017 Share #10 Posted May 27, 2017 Here is a collection of CNAC insignia from the CNAC.org website. The shiny hat badge in the second row is likely a reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 27, 2017 Share #11 Posted May 27, 2017 Also from the CNAC.org website - here are the wings of another American pilot - Bowles; and also here is a set of bullion CNAC wings. Again, none of these are like the one posted by the original poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 27, 2017 Share #12 Posted May 27, 2017 I do not know what the wings with the round center are. Possibly they are post war from the last year or so of the airline, or possibly they were made by the association of former pilots and crew that has been around for a long time and is still going, or perhaps they are just fantasy wings? Perhaps someone at the CNAC association might know? Their website is www.cnac.org and there are links there to contact them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conway Posted May 28, 2017 Share #13 Posted May 28, 2017 Is it possible the wing in question represents a crew position other then a pilot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 28, 2017 Share #14 Posted May 28, 2017 If you look at the photo with many wings a few posts above, there is a half wing in the shield style so I am not very hopeful that the original post wing with the round center is a crew wing. Of course anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted May 28, 2017 Share #15 Posted May 28, 2017 I'd like to add a couple of more images into the mix and see if I can sway the suggestion the wing in question might be a reunion or fantasy piece. I've had past opportunities to handle and closely inspect several of these unique aerial badges with "Chung" roundels and believe they are authentic 1942 thru 1947 era Calcutta-made wings. What I'm not so certain about is what aerial rating they actually represent? I'm leaning towards them being CNAC crew related... But also think they MAY have represented some type of American civilian aviation advisor or liaison between CNAC and the Chinese government or Chinese Air Force? Check out this bush jacket attributed to AVG Pilot Edwin Rushton: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted May 28, 2017 Share #16 Posted May 28, 2017 What might the various colors represent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted May 28, 2017 Share #17 Posted May 28, 2017 There is a pretty good CNAC webpage on the internet somewhere that has a great deal of information about the history and pilots of CNAC (http://www.cnac.org/). It is worth a look-- I think member KIMO already linked to it as well. I have been lucky enough to find a couple of CNAC wings, including just like the one in post #7. IIRC CNAC was around for a pretty good time, from before WWII until when the Mao and the Communists took over. I don't remember but I think some aspects of CNAC ended up in Taiwan. Clearly, there was a great deal of variations in the insignia used over time (and probably within local regions of China). My guess would be that this was one of those variations. Great wings. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josesharontraders Posted August 3, 2018 Share #18 Posted August 3, 2018 I'd like to add a couple of more images into the mix and see if I can sway the suggestion the wing in question might be a reunion or fantasy piece. I've had past opportunities to handle and closely inspect several of these unique aerial badges with "Chung" roundels and believe they are authentic 1942 thru 1947 era Calcutta-made wings. What I'm not so certain about is what aerial rating they actually represent? I'm leaning towards them being CNAC crew related... But also think they MAY have represented some type of American civilian aviation advisor or liaison between CNAC and the Chinese government or Chinese Air Force? Check out this bush jacket attributed to AVG Pilot Edwin Rushton: Hi Rustywings, Sorry to get in so late--over a year into this--thread. May I ask where you found your foregoing pictures & source information of CNAC badges and tunic being attributed to AVG Edwin Rushton? Also, my two cents word, I acquired two years ago the British government research report by a lady who visited both AVG and CNAC facilities during and after the war, where she mentions CNAC started to spiffy up their services after WW2, especially from the Hong Kong leg, in spite of the lingering civil war with the communists. So I speculate the colour on the wings came part and parcel of their wanting to increase their traffic with post war passengers--a more colourful badge on a pilot vs. the spartan look in the early years of peace civil war from 1929 to 1949? Could be wrong. In the end though, I think the badge is real and the price just over $1k is a steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted August 15, 2018 Share #19 Posted August 15, 2018 Hi Rustywings, Sorry to get in so late--over a year into this--thread. May I ask where you found your foregoing pictures & source information of CNAC badges and tunic being attributed to AVG Edwin Rushton? Also, my two cents word, I acquired two years ago the British government research report by a lady who visited both AVG and CNAC facilities during and after the war, where she mentions CNAC started to spiffy up their services after WW2, especially from the Hong Kong leg, in spite of the lingering civil war with the communists. So I speculate the colour on the wings came part and parcel of their wanting to increase their traffic with post war passengers--a more colourful badge on a pilot vs. the spartan look in the early years of peace civil war from 1929 to 1949? Could be wrong. In the end though, I think the badge is real and the price just over $1k is a steal. Thank you for your inquiry Josesharontraders. I very much appreciate your shared thoughts and opinion. As you've mentioned, it has been over fourteen months since a fellow Forum member allowed me to post a few images from his very impressive CNAC collection, which included the uniform attributed to AVG Pilot Edwin Rushton. Unfortunately, during the same time span, that particular collection has been sold and is now in the hands of one or more new owner(s). Out of respect for the privacy of both the old and new owner(s), I'll send you a personal email with a bit more info. With kind regards, Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 19, 2018 Share #20 Posted August 19, 2018 I've been lucky to pick up a couple of CNAC wings over the years. Perhaps one of the more common version of a rare wing. Its a 2 inch size (they had them in the 3 inch size and maybe a smaller size). It is on a base wing that seems to have been relatively common/popular as I have the same base wing as an aircrew. I have been told that these wings may have been made in India rather than China. But it also seems that some of the destinations for the CNAC planes was in India (especially during the war) that this is possible. This is a true story about how I purchased this CNAC wing. I found them pinned on a GI Joe doll at a flea market. The dealer wouldn't sell me just the wings, so I had to spend 10$ for the whole doll.... There is another (rather rarer) version of this CNAC wing with slightly different Chinese characters that probably was used for crew or mechanics. While nothing CNAC related can be called "common" these 2 inch CNAC wings are probably the least rare. In my opinion, I believe that these wings were what were worn during and maybe just after WWII. CNAC had a pretty long history (1929-1949 or so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 20, 2018 Share #21 Posted August 20, 2018 I also picked up this beauty. It is hand carved from a pretty solid block of metal. The pin, catch and hinge on my wing is missing, but there are signs that someone tried to repair it to some extent. There are no markings, but it does look like the hinge is built along the lines of the more traditional Chinese-type box hinge rather than the commonwealth-style bent wire hinge. I think this is one of the rarer versions of the CNAC pilot wing and may have been an early version. I have only seen a few examples of this wing (one in this thread). Apparently there is a version of this wing in solid gold as well (see Bob's site for a mixture of CNAC wings: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/china/chinacnac.shtml). The CNAC.org site is worth spending a few hours looking through and you will that there was a wide range of insignia worn. There appear to be Chinese, Indian American and British pilots/crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 20, 2018 Share #22 Posted August 20, 2018 I think that for almost 20 years of its existence, including various wars, insurrections and revolutions, the different CNAC insignia used was pretty wildly variable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josesharontraders Posted September 6, 2019 Share #23 Posted September 6, 2019 Thank you for your inquiry Josesharontraders. I very much appreciate your shared thoughts and opinion. As you've mentioned, it has been over fourteen months since a fellow Forum member allowed me to post a few images from his very impressive CNAC collection, which included the uniform attributed to AVG Pilot Edwin Rushton. Unfortunately, during the same time span, that particular collection has been sold and is now in the hands of one or more new owner(s). Out of respect for the privacy of both the old and new owner(s), I'll send you a personal email with a bit more info. With kind regards, Russ Hi Russ, Long time. Who knows the whole Cnac collection may pop up one day, uniform, hat, wings and all. Meanwhile, I would like to thank all on this wonderful site discussing CNAC period. I shall find time to post the research of CNAC by the British government lady sent up from India that says a lot about the airline service, its true purpose and its personnel. Thank you, Russ & all, for the intelligent discussion and the show of long term patience that we can only see in avid mature collectors. Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josesharontraders Posted September 6, 2019 Share #24 Posted September 6, 2019 Thank you for your inquiry Josesharontraders. I very much appreciate your shared thoughts and opinion. As you've mentioned, it has been over fourteen months since a fellow Forum member allowed me to post a few images from his very impressive CNAC collection, which included the uniform attributed to AVG Pilot Edwin Rushton. Unfortunately, during the same time span, that particular collection has been sold and is now in the hands of one or more new owner(s). Out of respect for the privacy of both the old and new owner(s), I'll send you a personal email with a bit more info. With kind regards, Russ Goodnight from Spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytiger Posted September 6, 2019 Share #25 Posted September 6, 2019 Well wish I had seen the wing for sale! As stated above CNAC had a fairly long service time frame and was based in different parts of China during that time so various styles of the "Wing" would certainly have been possible and probable. I flew with several former CNAC Captains in the late 60's early 70's and did not even know it at the time! If I had I would have a lot more info on what it was like first hand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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