auto ordnance 1911 question

[renfield]

The only true mil spec. 1911 I can find on the market is the one offered by AO. I know it's got a hammer block so it is not a true mil spec. It's as close as I am going to find. I understand Springfield has discontinued their GI version.

 

I have never owned an Auto Ordnance gun before. I know they are not considered a high end firearm, but are they reliable? That's my main concern. I only run ball ammo so it should function.

 

I have owned 4 1911s in the past but never this brand. I would be thankful for any first hand accounts of this pistol.

Thanks guys and gals.

Steve

[Garandomatic]

I can't speak for the 1911, but I had their Thompson a while back. Wouldn't function out of the box, brand new at over $1000. I eventually sent it back to the factory, where it was lost, and came back late with a note that just mentioned switching the extractor, which I'd already done. Had they read the letter I sent with it (which they advised me to do) they would have known that I already switched extractors and that it needed to be test fired more than once for it to start jamming up. Took a week to get anyone on the phone after that. Eventually, I got a hold of someone else who sent me a new bolt which worked.

 

Yep. worked fine for about 7 months, and then it started cracking where the extractor slides in. Apparently, heat treating isn't a big priority with them. At this point, I got the old bolt out, and found that it was milled .0030" too shallow, so the extractor would just mangle itself against the rim of the casing, and not extract it, leading to some really nasty stovepiping. The firing pin was also about .125" too long, and would blow holes through primers. I machined the old bolt and got it working properly again, kept it a few years, and got rid of it when it looked like a new federal law might pass, and I reasoned that I would be willing to pay a tax stamp on my Vietnam-style AR, and definitely my M1 Carbine (in the event of such a law), but not one red cent for that Thompson.

 

I know you aren't looking for a Thompson here, and I haven't heard major issues with their 1911s, but that experience FOREVER soiled that company with me. I will never own anything marked Auto Ordnance OR Kahr Arms, their owner.

 

If Springfield isn't making their GI 1911 anymore, that's too bad.

[Bill in VA]

Taylor's and Co. is currently selling base-model 70 Series 1911A1s for $350 and 1911s doe $375; kind of tough to beat that price. Parts interchange with the WWII-era USGI guns and the 70 Series 1911/1911A1s do not have the hammer block of 80 Series. IMHO these are about as close to a USGI 1911/1911A1 as you're going to get without dropping significantly more coin. About the only thing funky about the Armscor 1911s is the magazines: they come with a padded/plastic floor plate. Surplus 1911 magazines can still be found NIW for well under $20. The ones Taylor's is selling are made by Armscor (Rock Island) and Armscor/Rock Island has a pretty good reputation...far better than the stuff Auto Ordnance has been putting out.

I have several other 1911s, but I bought one of the Taylor's/Armscor 1911s on an impulse about a month ago just because of the price. My shooter is an older Springfield Armory 1911A1 "Mil-Spec" model and IMHO the one from Taylor's is every bit as good as my Springfield Armory (which is an 80 Series, by the way.)

 

Here's what Taylor's says:

The Taylor’s & Co. 1911 Pistol series is a comprehensive group reproduced using specifications from original government issued models. The 1911 model is chambered for .45 ACP ammunition and is a close reproduction of the original U.S. Government Model 1911 semi-automatic pistol. This is a single column, magazine-fed pistol with an eight-round capacity. Taylor’s offers four models of the 1911 style: the different models feature a unique magazine spring shape, and one has a lanyard ring (details below). All of the 1911 models are series-70 compatible. Taylor’s 1911 comes complete with a black carrying case and a total of two magazines.

 

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/taylor-s-tactical-1/taylor-s-1911-models.html

[rambob]

Steve, I own one of the modern Auto Ordinance 1911A1 pistols and I couldn't be happier with it. It is very well made and is completely reliable with the FMJ hardball ammo I shoot with it. I have had a hoot shooting it at the range all the while keeping my original WWII Colt made 1911A1 free from excessive wear and tear.

 

Bob

[bigkahunasix]

Please, in the name of John Moses Browning...do not buy the abortion that is the Auto Ordnance 1911 pistol. I have been a gunsmith (not a freaking part swapper) for over 40 years now and their product has been crapola since its inception. Slides too soft, frame rails too hard, parts of undetermined origin, sheared off barrel lugs, etc,etc,etc.......on and on, ad infinitum.

 

After numerous attempt to fix these monstrosities I now refuse to even entertain the idea and just hand the customer the AO/kahr Arms phone number and thus keep my blood pressure in check.

 

Buy a Springfield, Rock Island/Armscorp or better yet a Norinco (yes they can still be found unmolested for around $400 to $500)....well worth the small investment.

[hbtcoveralls]

Please, in the name of John Moses Browning...do not buy the abortion that is the Auto Ordnance 1911 pistol. I have been a gunsmith (not a freaking part swapper) for over 40 years now and their product has been crapola since its inception. Slides too soft, frame rails too hard, parts of undetermined origin, sheared off barrel lugs, etc,etc,etc.......on and on, ad infinitum.

 

After numerous attempt to fix these monstrosities I now refuse to even entertain the idea and just hand the customer the AO/kahr Arms phone number and thus keep my blood pressure in check.

 

Buy a Springfield, Rock Island/Armscorp or better yet a Norinco (yes they can still be found unmolested for around $400 to $500)....well worth the small investment.

He's right I have had the same experience with the one I bought new in the box. It was cheap but you get what you pay for. I use it to fill my holster for re-enactments but haven't shot it in years. Real POS.

Tom Bowers

[rambob]

Well it looks like we have a little mystery here, because after putting over 500 rounds through my Auto Ordinance 1911A1 pistol it still looks and is as good/tight as new. While I am not a gunsmith, I am an Engineer and have been tinkering with and repairing my large number of guns for over 40 years. After reading the two negative posts here, I went and fetched the pistol, field stripped it and carefully looked at every nook and cranny. I saw no hint of soft parts or peening on any surface, indicating soft or cheap parts.

 

I guess that I may have just gotten a good one by accident or after 7548 pistols before it, the manufacturer may have gotten their act together. BTW. I bought the pistol loose/used from a gun show and have no idea how many rounds were fired through it before I even got it.

 

Steve, if I were you I would buy something else since there seems to be some other strong opinions against the Auto Ordinance pistol. I would hate to lure you into a POS pistol by mistake.

 

FYI. Here are the markings on the frame of my pistol.

 

Bob

[Chris_B]

Guys. A little information might go a long way.

 

When Auto-Ordnance was making these pistols in West Hurley they had problems galore. When they started making them in Worcester the quality went up. The place of manufacture is stamped on the frame.

 

Making blanket statements and attributing stains on the holy name of JMB to Auto Ordnance....Colt has made some really crummy pistols too. Is Colt a blight on the hallowed name of John Moses Browning? No. So please let's stop the hyperbole and arm ourselves with knowledge.

 

Auto-Ordnance pistols are not the highest quality. But nobody pretends they are. I own one. And it is inferior to my Colt Series70 from 1978 and my Colt Model of 1911 made in 1918. I'd be shocked if it were not, it was 300 bucks. But all the same, my A-O does the job and 1911.org was kind enough to feature my A-O in a calendar a few years back.

[Bill in VA]

I don't think anyone's disputing your experience with your A-O 1911, Rambob, but for every great review there's also a poor one. Just like Hipoint pistols...every HIpoint owner has stories of how their Hipoint pistol has functioned flawlessly for a gazillion rounds, and when it finally shinola the bed, Hipoint cheerfully repaired or replaced the gun for free; yet, everyone knows Hipoint is a low-quality zamack pistol.

 

While I've heard for years about soft A-O's soft slides, I have no personal/direct experience with their 1911s. I do, however, have plenty of experience, both first- and secondhand with their Thompson SMG-lookalike rifles, and none of those are positive. IMHO, I think it's abhorrent that any company would sell a thousand dollar-plus rifle that didn't work straight out of the box, let alone provide minimal customer service when the buyer complains about their new rifle not working properly.

My .02, YMMV

[Garandomatic]

I'll point out that my Thompson was made recently enough to not be a West Hurley piece, if I remember correctly. I got it on 2/2/07, and I believe it was finished at the factory in December of '06. I know, apples and oranges, but I read reviews where people said the Thompsons were REALLY bad at West Hurley as well, and mine was supposed to be a "new, improved" Kahr piece.

[bigkahunasix]

Guys. A little information might go a long way.

 

When Auto-Ordnance was making these pistols in West Hurley they had problems galore. When they started making them in Worcester the quality went up. The place of manufacture is stamped on the frame.

 

Making blanket statements and attributing stains on the holy name of JMB to Auto Ordnance....Colt has made some really crummy pistols too. Is Colt a blight on the hallowed name of John Moses Browning? No. So please let's stop the hyperbole and arm ourselves with knowledge.

 

Auto-Ordnance pistols are not the highest quality. But nobody pretends they are. I own one. And it is inferior to my Colt Series70 from 1978 and my Colt Model of 1911 made in 1918. I'd be shocked if it were not, it was 300 bucks. But all the same, my A-O does the job and 1911.org was kind enough to feature my A-O in a calendar a few years back.

 

For what it is worth Chris, they was no hyperbole in my assessment of the problems AO/Kahr 1911's have exhibited. Every problem I pointed out have been well documented through the years of problems this company has racked up. I have embellished nothing.

 

As far as improvements from the new factory, I inspected 3 failed pistols less than a month ago at a defensive pistol course...all owned by the same family and all less than 3 month old, purchased as cost effective home defense firearms. All 3 serial numbers are within 40 numbers of one another. The round counts are assumed accurate as the owner is an accountant and these things are of particular interest to him.

 

Gun 1) Slide cracked at 2 oclock in locking lug recess area. Total round count on gun....2467 rounds according to owners records.

 

Gun 2) Left leg of barrel lug broke off. Total round count....3106 rounds

 

Gun 3) Hammer broke off at approx. 2700 rounds and was replaced. Slide cracked in recoil spring plunger recess....noticed at approx. 2900 rounds.

 

These guns were purchased for the course (against the instructors recommendations) and the shooters had shot approx 500 to 750 rounds per month for the 2 months prior to the course and had thrown the factory mags away after numerous problems then purchased Wilson and McMormick mags for the course.

 

When I was a Marine armorer I would have called it a decent showing for 50 year old guns.....but these were NEW firearms purchased for defense.

 

All 3 guns are back at AO for repair and evaluation and will be sold as soon as the return.

 

And yes, Colt has built some crap guns (they are not my favorite flavor of 1911) but not at the consistently miserable quality I have personally witnessed with AO.

[bigkahunasix]

As a yardstick to measure those 3 performance by, I just checked my carry/IPSC/IDPA gun.....round count over 35,000 rounds of hardball equivalent or higher level ammo.

 

To date after 9 years it has had around a dozen recoil springs and firing pin springs (I change them together.), one cracked barrel bushing, one replaced barrel link and slide stop, one broken firing pin, 2 firing pins replaced due to wear, 2 firing pin stops and a couple of stripped grip screw bushings.

 

10 times the round count and nothing but simple PM or minor repair issues. It's a Springfield GI model with Novak sights as the only modification other than a 4.5 pound trigger job.

 

And real firearm manufacturer should be able to do at least 10,000 rounds without self destructing, don't you think.

[renfield]

Thanks for all the input. What I really want is a Springfield G.I. but they have been discontinued. I might try for a "new" GI Springfield. I have owned a Colt Gold Cup but I want a parkerized plain Jane. I can afford a very nice 1911 but want a GI clone. I truly would hate to buy something I do not think will function. Looks like it is time to hit the gun shows again.

I value all of your opinions and welcome more.

Steve

[rambob]

Bigkahunasix, Thanks for your insight and I apologize for questioning your input!! In retrospect I guess the measly 500 rounds I have put through my pistol are nothing compared to the numbers you posted. I haven't even broken in my pistol yet and may still have the future problems you have experienced. The good news is I bought this pistol for the nostalgia of shooting a WWII type firearm, not for defense. I don't anticipate putting more than another 500 rounds through it in the long term future. BTW. I have a Taurus Model 99 pistol in 9mm, for defense and the major popping of caps. Unfortunately, the arthritis in my hands is limiting my time and enjoyment at the pistol range lately.

 

Bob

[stealthytyler]

Ive had no issues with mine. Love it for the money

[mpguy80/08]

I own a Thompson/Auto Ordnance M1911A1 manufactured in West Hurley N.Y. I picked it up in 2008 when I retired, brand new in the box for $460.00. The main problem I had with it was feeding at first, but then every new pistol is like that... teething problems till you get a few rounds through her. The slide would go forward, half feed a round and stop out of battery. A slight pull and release and the round would seat okay. After a few hundred rounds or so, she fired fine for awhile. After about three hundred rounds (not all at once mind you) I noticed the pistol would feed fine, but misfire. Hammer would fall, but the pistol would not fire. I was using factory load Winchester 230 gr. FMJ. I disassembled the pistol and found that the original stainless steel firing pin was mushroomed where the hammer struck it. and was totally imbedded below the firing pin stop to where the hammer wouldn't actuate the firing pin at all. I replaced it with a G.I. Steel firing pin and she works fine now. The only other parts I've replaced are the grips (I wanted double diamond grips) and a WWII Trigger to give the pistol a more WWII look. I exchanged the mainspring housing for a lanyard loop housing but it jammed the grip safety, rendering it inoperative so I went back to the original mainspring housing. I'd prefer a wartime M1911 pistol, but this one works okay for me after a rough start.

 

Wayne

[BOLO]

I own a Thompson/Auto Ordnance M1911A1 manufactured in West Hurley N.Y. I picked it up in 2008 when I retired, brand new in the box for $460.00. The main problem I had with it was feeding at first, but then every new pistol is like that... teething problems till you get a few rounds through her. The slide would go forward, half feed a round and stop out of battery. A slight pull and release and the round would seat okay. After a few hundred rounds or so, she fired fine for awhile. After about three hundred rounds (not all at once mind you) I noticed the pistol would feed fine, but misfire. Hammer would fall, but the pistol would not fire. I was using factory load Winchester 230 gr. FMJ. I disassembled the pistol and found that the original stainless steel firing pin was mushroomed where the hammer struck it. and was totally imbedded below the firing pin stop to where the hammer wouldn't actuate the firing pin at all. I replaced it with a G.I. Steel firing pin and she works fine now. The only other parts I've replaced are the grips (I wanted double diamond grips) and a WWII Trigger to give the pistol a more WWII look. I exchanged the mainspring housing for a lanyard loop housing but it jammed the grip safety, rendering it inoperative so I went back to the original mainspring housing. I'd prefer a wartime M1911 pistol, but this one works okay for me after a rough start.

 

Wayne

 

sounds like the tolerances are not military spec? and they used sub-standard parts? to cut costs