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1867-1919 Repro Rates and Chevrons


hhbooker2
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"GREETINGS & SALUTATIONS!" Would you believe it? Sialkot, Pakistan embroiderers are embroidering repro rates and chevrons like these I shall show you here so you can be cautious when offered these, most likely "aged" later. I can either destroy these samples or donate them to the naval museum to be shown as what the rates looked like, what should I do with these reproductions, you tell me? crying.gif Sarge Booker of Tujunga, California (hhbooker2@yahoo.com) Will show you first the back of a repro 1886 rate. :unsure:

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REPRO: These are probably made for re-enactment, they are also from Sialkot, Pakistan. Although they look like the real thing, the Pakistani embroiderers likely had an original pair to go by to achieve this degree of success? "Black-Light" won't work as they use old type thread, not the nylon stuff that would glow. They even sewed it to something and pulled the chevrons loosed to create the impression they were taken from a uniform. I have more REPRO rates and chevrons to show, front and backs in most cases. pinch.gif Sarge Booker

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REPRO: Here is an obvious reproduction of a WW1 U.S.Army Telephone Operator. w00t.gif Sarge Booker

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REPRO: This came from Sialkot, Pakistan, it is a reproduction of a Draftsman-Illustrator 1st Class Petty Officer. Note the nice backing, who said they cannot get it right? Pribably based on actual rates? You cannot be too careful. think.gif Sarge Booker

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REPRO: These are probably made for re-enactment, they are also from Sialkot, Pakistan. Although they look like the real thing, the Pakistani embroiderers likely had an original pair to go by to achieve this degree of success? "Black-Light" won't work as they use old type thread, not the nylon stuff that would glow. They even sewed it to something and pulled the chevrons loosed to create the impression they were taken from a uniform. I have more REPRO rates and chevrons to show, front and backs in most cases. pinch.gif Sarge Booker

 

G'day Herbert,

 

can you go into a little more detail with this one?

I am having a hard time seeing that it is a fake. Can you point out the exact points?

It must be a very good fake as it has me fooled.

 

Leigh

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G'day Herbert,

 

can you go into a little more detail with this one?

I am having a hard time seeing that it is a fake. Can you point out the exact points?

It must be a very good fake as it has me fooled.

 

Leigh

 

LEIGH: Pakistani embroiderers should never be under-estimated, they have looms and can weave patterns just like anything from the U.S.A. or Europe for that matter. All they need is an original to go by and if they can take a hunk of steel and make it turn into a fine English shotgun, an AK-47, a Smith & Wesson revolver, etc., they can do some very amazing things, Leigh! Re-enacotrs buy from them and even get orii9gnal looking uniforms with proper labels as well. Reason I know is it came directly from Sialkot, Pakistan. Chewck out this U.S. Navy Chief Master-At-Arms that looks pretty good, and note the silver is slighgtly tarnished to give it an "aged" look, unless you know who you get something from or pull it off an old uniform, you might risk being taken in, Leigh! ermm.gif Sarge Booker

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REPRO: Pakistani reproduction of the 1886 petty officer 2nd class Boatswain's Mate with good conduct gold chevrons. crying.gif (Obverse and reverse)

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Hi Sarge,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It looks like you may be able to tell the difference of these repo's by looking at the backs of them. The navy ones anyway. I post a picture (of a real one) of the front and back of a 1886 rate. It does look different. Have a look.

 

Jason

 

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Hi Sarge,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It looks like you may be able to tell the difference of these repo's by looking at the backs of them. The navy ones anyway. I post a picture (of a real one) of the front and back of a 1886 rate. It does look different. Have a look.

 

Jason

 

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JASON: True, the backs tell the story, but all too often the sellers show just the front of a rate, hardly ever the back of it. Here is an example of a REPRO of an 1841 Petty Officer Rate made in Pakistan. thumbsup.gif Sarge Booker

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Hi Sarge,

Your wright about the sellers often don't show the backs of patches!!! I usually ask for one,if they don't send me a picture I don't bid. Man, what don't those pakistani embroiderers make. Also I believe there is a seller on ebay that sells fake ww2 navy rates, which he lists them as copies.

 

Jason

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Hi Sarge,

Your right about the sellers often don't show the backs of patches!!! I usually ask for one,if they don't send me a picture I don't bid. Man, what don't those pakistani embroiderers make. Also I believe there is a seller on ebay that sells fake ww2 navy rates, which he lists them as copies.

 

Jason

 

JASON: "Copies" are reproductions, just a matter of symantics, yes? Like laser colour photocopies sound unique, means they are just photographic copies, no? If someone possesses a one hundred year old negative and prints a photo from it, is it an original? Not really! The photographic paper is not the same or the chemicals used to develop it even if the image is the same. Pakistani manufacturers love money enough to get it as close to possible so the people who want the stuff pften love money to, one needs only to do the math! Here is a REPRO from Sialkot, Palistan. w00t.gif Sarge Booker

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REPRO: These are probably made for re-enactment, they are also from Sialkot, Pakistan. Although they look like the real thing, the Pakistani embroiderers likely had an original pair to go by to achieve this degree of success? "Black-Light" won't work as they use old type thread, not the nylon stuff that would glow. They even sewed it to something and pulled the chevrons loosed to create the impression they were taken from a uniform. I have more REPRO rates and chevrons to show, front and backs in most cases. pinch.gif Sarge Booker

 

Hi Sarge,

 

are those Army NCO ranks hard to get nowdays to be reproduced ?

I knew that Pakistani embroiders were damn good because their repros of Free French and British para, pilot wings are floating around here for a couple of years. And they are hard to ID for unexperimented collectors.

 

Cheers,

A.

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Hi Sarge,

 

are those Army NCO ranks hard to get nowdays to be reproduced ?

I knew that Pakistani embroiders were damn good because their repros of Free French and British para, pilot wings are floating around here for a couple of years. And they are hard to ID for unexperimented collectors.

 

Cheers,

A.

 

 

ANDREI: Here are two chevrons from Palistan made for World War One collectors, they are well made as you can see, yes? The man who markets the majority of French Foreign Legion is a former friend of mine, a retired police detective who was the Best Man at my wedding in 1978, we parted company when I learned he was "aging" and selling insignia as original, needless to say! No, the chevrons you saw are all too easy to obtain, I get email constantly from Pakistani manufacturers offering it to me, but I do not buy it. This stuff you see was made almost twenty years ago and I stored it away after donating some of it to the naval museum in Washington, D.C. for them to use as "Museum Copy" to show what badges from 1841-1898 looked like, better quality than you have seen here so far, too good, in fact! I made some Chinese Air Force wings combining two different styles and created a third one when asked to do so and then I saw the creation in a nationally published magazine as a missing pair not yet seen and asked the author why didn't he tell them it was created? My drawings were too good! I drew in India ink 400% karger than actual size and captured details to a high degree - you can see examples in the Trading Post Magazine back issues from A.S.M.I.C.! w00t.gif Sarge Booker (hhbooker2@yahoo.com)

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