The "some WW2 patches glow" challenge!

[Teamski]

I have been using the blacklight, burn test, and yes the bite test on patches and thread for 30 years now. I have to agree that WW2 and earlier patches will not glow under a blacklight. The excuses that most dealers selling fake patches give me when I return them is they will glow if washed in certain detergents, fabric softeners, and starches. This is bull, I have tested it and they will not fluoresce under a blacklight. Natural fibers like rayon and silk do not fluoresce but do shine just like polished cotton. Many collectors learning to use a blacklight cannot distinguish blacklight reflection especially on white colors from glow. There is no mistaking synthetic glow. polyester and synthetic fibers are solid plastic fibers that carry light just like fiber optic cable. That is why they fluoresce under any light but viewed in the dark under a blacklight is very evident. The blacklight as far as I'm concerned is dependable once you know how to use it.

 

 

Older detergents can cause a glow. Check out my example earlier in this thread. I agree that using that to try to sell a repro is BS as it is a rare occurrence these days. Also, older repros from the 1980's will not glow either. That black light is a two edged sword and I no longer use it.

 

-Ski

[Bill Scott]

There is an old adage I learned years ago."Even An Old Mechanic Uses Every Tool In The box Once In A While". If a patch glows for what ever reason most collectors do not want it so if one of your glows get another one that does not.Scotty PS I use a black light all the time and its one of the tools in my box of knowledge.

[hardheaded]

When I first heard of black light testing I searched the Internet and found the website of an internationally known authentication expert. Learned a lot from the website and also looked on the web for burn testing, Which he also covers but I think I found that on a wordpress pdf of cycleback's (been awhile). The site is cycleback.com. IMO worth a read.

[Acadien359]

First of all, I want to say a big THANKS to all the members who have contributed to this topic. Problem is, it seems the more I read, and the more patches I look at, the more confused I get. And this from someone who's been messing with militaria since the late 70s. I'll elaborate.

 

[1] It would be great if someone could find documentation that certain synthetic fibers were used [or conversely, were NOT used] in the manufacture of some WW2 patches. I've had, and/or still have, quite a few patches that are totally 100% WW2 type construction, that have some degree of glow to the white sections [not a solid glow, but in "flecks" or "waves" woven into the white design], smooth back, not the rough type commonly found on post war and/or repro patches. Of course, I get it, that some patches would have continued to be made shortly after the war, for units that may have been disbanded after the war ended, for wear as combat patches by those who were authorized to do so. I have several Philippine Department patches that are like this--the sea lion does not glow overall, but has some degree of glowing threads woven into the design.

 

[2] On the other end of the spectrum, I've had quite a few modern [Vietnam and later, US made] merrowed edge patches, which would obviously be made of all synthetic fibers, that did not glow under the black light test.

 

[3] There are some patches, like the 6th Service Command [no offense, Ski!], that, in my opinion, no one in their right mind would reproduce, simply due to the lack of demand. It's easy to see why some patches, like the 2nd Armor Division, 29th Infantry Division, 101st Airborne, etc., would be reproduced to meet the demand from the reenacting and living history community. I don't know of too many people who reenact a stateside service command. I have a 6th Armored Division patch I've had since I was a kid in the late 70s, standard WW2 OD border cut edge construction with khaki base fabric...and that base fabric glows like crazy. 

 

[4] Different types of detergents, cleaners, etc., always a possibility--a good example would be comparing a WW2 white Navy sailor cap to the current issue one. Both are made the same way, of 100% cotton, but the more recent ones will light up like they're on fire, even unissued [never laundered] ones--might be due to some sort of fabric treatment applied at the factory.

 

Anyway, this topic certainly generates a great deal of interest, and I look forward to hearing more opinions on the subject.

 

Alan T

[JrBfloNY]

On 5/31/2013 at 2:15 PM, Teamski said:

 

 

The 6th Service Command patch I posted most certainly did not glow before I washed it in 1981, so I wouldn't expect you to pay out for it (although you never stipulated whether you wanted a WWII patch that glowed as produced or if it glowed from being washed..... ). Empirical evidence shows that patches washed in detergents with phosphates do glow and will over a long period of time if storage conditions are right. I don't know of many people who store patches in the open. I can show a photo of my 1st Service Command glowing as well to show a consistency among the patches I washed that summer day....

 

Empirical evidence shows that there are many repros that do not glow. Here is a photo of two different repro 13th Airborne Division patches. The one on the left was sold by Quincy Sales in the early 1980's and the one on the right is currently sold on E-Bay. Note that the ONLY thing that glows here is the backing material on the recent repro on the right. The one on the left does not glow at all, synthetic threads and all. People will swear it is original from this test alone. Sorry for the poor photo. I only have a black light flashlight right now and it is tough to photograph....

 

-Ski

Previous page you state that you didn't know if it glower now you proclaim without a reason of doubt. The question was how do you know it didn't glow before. Your exact words....

 

I don't. The fact that the blue glows with the white shows that the detergent caused the patch to glow, not the fibers (blue doesn't glow). I also have other patches I washed at the same time that glow as well, including a 1st Service Command patch.....

 

-Ski

[Airborne-Hunter]

I have heard alot about detergents making things glow. I have never quite tried it, but the old timers have always stood by that. I have collected a very long time and have written alot of articles. I do not use a black light. An old ASMIC member once told me to focus on the materials and workmanship. In my experience I have found that true. After looking at enough patches you can tell pretty well which will glow and which will not. I liken a black light more to folly than to scientific test. It is a crutch that can provide false assurances. Best ABN