17th Airborne Flags

[Gliderinf]

Looking at various Pics of the 17th in Varsity - I'm seeing some folks wearing Flags sewn on, Some wearing Brassards and some without.

 

Has anybody looked in depth to figure out Which units wore which ?

 

It would be a lot easier if Somebody published a 17th Photo History - but with bits an peices to go on

 

 

Also - one would assume that as late as Varsity there would be Green First Aid Packs being worn - but they all apear to be tan ?

 

Any Photos would be nice Showing anything else 17th/Vasity.

 

Thanks Chaps

[Gregory]

Do you have or have you ever seen Johann J. Nitrowski's book under the title of "Die Luftlandung - Das Kriegsende im Gebiet der Städte Hamminkeln und Wesel"? This book has an opinion of the best book on Operation Varsity. Perhaps it contains the answers for your questions.

[Gregory]

Looking at various Pics of the 17th in Varsity - I'm seeing some folks wearing Flags sewn on, Some wearing Brassards and some without.

 

Has anybody looked in depth to figure out Which units wore which?

One more remark from me as a person very interested in Operation Varsity. I have never seen Varsity period US airborne trooper with American flag brassard. I agree that 17th Abn troops had either separate flag patch or they were without flags. Of course no guarantee that there was not one soldier with brassard. The problem is in fact that main unit well photographed then was 513th PIR.

 

This month new Varsity dedicated book will be published in the USA so maybe it will have more interesting pics not focused only at 513th as image below.

[Gliderinf]

Thanks Gregory I'll Keep an eye out for the new book. I think the German one you mentioned is a bit thin on the ground. I know where to get the 17th History - which I will at some point (though it only has 20 odd photos )

 

Just looking around the web I have seen a few with brassards - though many of them could be Glider Pilots Obviously need more photos (identified ) to figure it out.

 

On the other hand Ive seen shots of GPs without ?

 

Anyone have any photos to show us

[O.G-Palmer]

I have never seen this photo before ty for posting it, Just something I have noticed has he stuck bits of medical tape on his helmet? I so why can only think that he has done it to stop the shell coming off his liner.

[Gliderinf]

Does look like it - Looks like he has A Yokes - so Para liner with Normal shell ?

[Gregory]

I'll Keep an eye out for the new book. I think the German one you mentioned is a bit thin on the ground.

I am preparing now something special about this book for our USMF "Book Reports" section. In November 2007 I interviewed the author of this book that is why I know it will be published this March in Varsity anniversary.

 

I think the German one you mentioned is a bit thin on the ground.

This is low circulation privately-published "Holly Grail" in the field of US Airborne dedicated books. It is impossible to find now. Varsity researchers tell it is the best book on Varsity. For your information look at front cover.

 

 

I know where to get the 17th History - which I will at some point (though it only has 20 odd photos )

Last months I found the Polish eyewitness of Operation Varsity. He was a forced labourer in 3rd Reich. He worked normally as always by the Rhine and suddenly he stood in the centre of landing gliders.

 

Regards

 

Greg

[Gregory]

I have never seen this photo before ty for posting it, Just something I have noticed has he stuck bits of medical tape on his helmet? I so why can only think that he has done it to stop the shell coming off his liner.

 

Does look like it - Looks like he has A Yokes - so Para liner with Normal shell ?

[Gliderinf]

Cool I'll have one of them when it comes out

 

Looks like no straps on the shell.

[craig_pickrall]

There is a thread here somewhere that discusses the tape on helmets. It was fairly common to see in pics.

[Gregory]

There is a thread here somewhere that discusses the tape on helmets.

And similar discussion at the MCF.

[Gregory]

Here is my favourite image of morning pre-take off phase for Varsity. The para from 513th PIR pictorial of "Life" weekly. He has patch-type US flag (right sleeve). He has interesting leg strap for M3 Trench Knife -- with a kind of O-ring.

[Gliderinf]

And Knees good stuff

[Gregory]

And Knees good stuff

And unfortunately devil's device as well that killed many American boys in Varsity -- not early clip-type main fastener but new poorly copied Irvin-type quick-release fastener (white disc at the picture).

[Gregory]

Looks like no straps on the shell.

This GI of ETO has chinstrap-less helmet but he seems to be happy...

[Gliderinf]

OK, so far from all the photos Ive seen, I'm getting =

 

513th = Flags right shoulder

194th = No Flags

GPs = Mix of Brasards / Flags / either shoulder

507th = bugger all pictures ?

Other = Flags right shoulder

 

What have you got to support / disprove these ?

[Gregory]

513th = Flags right shoulder

Yes, but incidentally also left shoulder. Here is one more photograph from the 513th pictorial of Varsity.

[Gliderinf]

Looks like hes got them on both sides

[Gregory]

Looks like hes got them on both sides

Heaven knows, perhaps you are right. I like this pic very much and I have always thought what is this piece of something at his right arm...

[Gliderinf]

Could be he already had a red cross on that side - hence putting flag on left ?

[Gregory]

Could be he already had a red cross on that side - hence putting flag on left ?

Let's look...

[doyler]

I have a small uniform group from a 507th vet.In the group are two flags.One oil cloth,one of the gauze material.The oilcloth one was quite tacky and the gauze one was stuck on it.Both have been used.The oil cloth one is cut/trimmed down and is not the full arm brassard type.

[Gregory]

I have a small uniform group from a 507th vet.In the group are two flags.One oil cloth,one of the gauze material.The oilcloth one was quite tacky and the gauze one was stuck on it.Both have been used.The oil cloth one is cut/trimmed down and is not the full arm brassard type.

It is a very valuable info. Observing Varsity period photographs I would say that quality of the flags depended on the jackets used by troopers. Very clean and freshly looking flags were on relatively new M1943 jackets whereas very dirty and used-look flags were on older M1942 jump jackets -- as can be seen below. But who knows -- maybe there were also very dirty and used-look flags re-sewn on M1943 jackets...?

 

Regards

 

Greg

[Gliderinf]

Anymore Photos folks

 

Plus, Does anyone know if the Film footage is available anywhere - either to buy on DVD or to watch online etc etc ?

[Gregory]

I set up a topic on Varsity with video:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=16692