Gliderinf Posted March 7, 2008 Share #1 Posted March 7, 2008 Looking at various Pics of the 17th in Varsity - I'm seeing some folks wearing Flags sewn on, Some wearing Brassards and some without. Has anybody looked in depth to figure out Which units wore which ? It would be a lot easier if Somebody published a 17th Photo History - but with bits an peices to go on Also - one would assume that as late as Varsity there would be Green First Aid Packs being worn - but they all apear to be tan ? Any Photos would be nice Showing anything else 17th/Vasity. Thanks Chaps Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 7, 2008 Share #2 Posted March 7, 2008 Do you have or have you ever seen Johann J. Nitrowski's book under the title of "Die Luftlandung - Das Kriegsende im Gebiet der Städte Hamminkeln und Wesel"? This book has an opinion of the best book on Operation Varsity. Perhaps it contains the answers for your questions. Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #3 Posted March 8, 2008 Looking at various Pics of the 17th in Varsity - I'm seeing some folks wearing Flags sewn on, Some wearing Brassards and some without. Has anybody looked in depth to figure out Which units wore which? One more remark from me as a person very interested in Operation Varsity. I have never seen Varsity period US airborne trooper with American flag brassard. I agree that 17th Abn troops had either separate flag patch or they were without flags. Of course no guarantee that there was not one soldier with brassard. The problem is in fact that main unit well photographed then was 513th PIR. This month new Varsity dedicated book will be published in the USA so maybe it will have more interesting pics not focused only at 513th as image below. Link to post Share on other sites
Gliderinf Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted March 8, 2008 Thanks Gregory I'll Keep an eye out for the new book. I think the German one you mentioned is a bit thin on the ground. I know where to get the 17th History - which I will at some point (though it only has 20 odd photos ) Just looking around the web I have seen a few with brassards - though many of them could be Glider Pilots Obviously need more photos (identified ) to figure it out. On the other hand Ive seen shots of GPs without ? Anyone have any photos to show us Link to post Share on other sites
O.G-Palmer Posted March 8, 2008 Share #5 Posted March 8, 2008 I have never seen this photo before ty for posting it, Just something I have noticed has he stuck bits of medical tape on his helmet? I so why can only think that he has done it to stop the shell coming off his liner. Link to post Share on other sites
Gliderinf Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted March 8, 2008 Does look like it - Looks like he has A Yokes - so Para liner with Normal shell ? Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #7 Posted March 8, 2008 I'll Keep an eye out for the new book. I think the German one you mentioned is a bit thin on the ground. I am preparing now something special about this book for our USMF "Book Reports" section. In November 2007 I interviewed the author of this book that is why I know it will be published this March in Varsity anniversary. I think the German one you mentioned is a bit thin on the ground. This is low circulation privately-published "Holly Grail" in the field of US Airborne dedicated books. It is impossible to find now. Varsity researchers tell it is the best book on Varsity. For your information look at front cover. I know where to get the 17th History - which I will at some point (though it only has 20 odd photos ) Last months I found the Polish eyewitness of Operation Varsity. He was a forced labourer in 3rd Reich. He worked normally as always by the Rhine and suddenly he stood in the centre of landing gliders. Regards Greg Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #8 Posted March 8, 2008 I have never seen this photo before ty for posting it, Just something I have noticed has he stuck bits of medical tape on his helmet? I so why can only think that he has done it to stop the shell coming off his liner. Does look like it - Looks like he has A Yokes - so Para liner with Normal shell ? Link to post Share on other sites
Gliderinf Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted March 8, 2008 Cool I'll have one of them when it comes out Looks like no straps on the shell. Link to post Share on other sites
craig_pickrall Posted March 8, 2008 Share #10 Posted March 8, 2008 There is a thread here somewhere that discusses the tape on helmets. It was fairly common to see in pics. Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #11 Posted March 8, 2008 There is a thread here somewhere that discusses the tape on helmets. And similar discussion at the MCF. Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #12 Posted March 8, 2008 Here is my favourite image of morning pre-take off phase for Varsity. The para from 513th PIR pictorial of "Life" weekly. He has patch-type US flag (right sleeve). He has interesting leg strap for M3 Trench Knife -- with a kind of O-ring. Link to post Share on other sites
Gliderinf Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted March 8, 2008 And Knees good stuff Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #14 Posted March 8, 2008 And Knees good stuff And unfortunately devil's device as well that killed many American boys in Varsity -- not early clip-type main fastener but new poorly copied Irvin-type quick-release fastener (white disc at the picture). Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #15 Posted March 8, 2008 Looks like no straps on the shell. This GI of ETO has chinstrap-less helmet but he seems to be happy... Link to post Share on other sites
Gliderinf Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted March 8, 2008 OK, so far from all the photos Ive seen, I'm getting = 513th = Flags right shoulder 194th = No Flags GPs = Mix of Brasards / Flags / either shoulder 507th = bugger all pictures ? Other = Flags right shoulder What have you got to support / disprove these ? Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #17 Posted March 8, 2008 513th = Flags right shoulder Yes, but incidentally also left shoulder. Here is one more photograph from the 513th pictorial of Varsity. Link to post Share on other sites
Gliderinf Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share #18 Posted March 8, 2008 Looks like hes got them on both sides Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #19 Posted March 8, 2008 Looks like hes got them on both sides Heaven knows, perhaps you are right. I like this pic very much and I have always thought what is this piece of something at his right arm... Link to post Share on other sites
Gliderinf Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share #20 Posted March 8, 2008 Could be he already had a red cross on that side - hence putting flag on left ? Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 8, 2008 Share #21 Posted March 8, 2008 Could be he already had a red cross on that side - hence putting flag on left ? Let's look... Link to post Share on other sites
doyler Posted March 8, 2008 Share #22 Posted March 8, 2008 I have a small uniform group from a 507th vet.In the group are two flags.One oil cloth,one of the gauze material.The oilcloth one was quite tacky and the gauze one was stuck on it.Both have been used.The oil cloth one is cut/trimmed down and is not the full arm brassard type. Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 9, 2008 Share #23 Posted March 9, 2008 I have a small uniform group from a 507th vet.In the group are two flags.One oil cloth,one of the gauze material.The oilcloth one was quite tacky and the gauze one was stuck on it.Both have been used.The oil cloth one is cut/trimmed down and is not the full arm brassard type. It is a very valuable info. Observing Varsity period photographs I would say that quality of the flags depended on the jackets used by troopers. Very clean and freshly looking flags were on relatively new M1943 jackets whereas very dirty and used-look flags were on older M1942 jump jackets -- as can be seen below. But who knows -- maybe there were also very dirty and used-look flags re-sewn on M1943 jackets...? Regards Greg Link to post Share on other sites
Gliderinf Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share #24 Posted March 10, 2008 Anymore Photos folks Plus, Does anyone know if the Film footage is available anywhere - either to buy on DVD or to watch online etc etc ? Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Posted March 10, 2008 Share #25 Posted March 10, 2008 I set up a topic on Varsity with video: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=16692 Link to post Share on other sites
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