Question about owning a WWII bazooka round.

[M24 Chaffee]

Hello,

 

I know there will be members that can answer this question. My old neighbor's father passed away recently. He was a fine gentleman. A WWII combat vet with the

78th Infantry "Lightening Division". When his son was cleaning out his father's home he found a WWII bazooka round. He thought he remembered his father telling him that it was inert but he wasn't sure. He did the correct thing and had the local bomb squad check it out. He asked them if it was inert could his family have it back. He was told "no, because it belongs to the Army". I would assume that may be true, but could his fathers keepsake end up in someone else's collection? It made the local news broadcasts as well.

 

Thanks,

Frank

[doyler]

From my experiance when something is turned over its normally destroyed...inert or not.Havent really heard the army property story before on old ordnance.Had a local gunsmith try that on me years ago when I bought a 45 auto that was WW2 vintage.Once he found out I wasnt going to sell it to him for nothing as he wanted to make a pin gun out of it and chop it up.The original owner(vet) had tried to scratch out the sn on it and I wanted the gunsmith to clean it up so I could read them better.Once I said it wasnt for sale it was: "I will have to turn this in to the Police Department to see if its stolen" etc....Guess he figured I was a stupid kid and would just hand it over.

 

Bottom line if its still "army property"then anything in our collections is still technically belongs to the army.(I can tell you about a local reserve unit who was almost taken to task by the Inpector Generals office here).

 

If its not been destroyed its already on someone elses shelf.

[oldfireguy]

It very well could end up in someone's collection as a training aid for the bomb squad. Either that or in a landfill. I would argue the point if it still belongs to the Army or not. He needs to go above the bomb squads head person and try to get it back if it is safe.

[US Military Guy]

My opinion -

 

Your friend's son just had a family heirloom "stolen" from him - and although your local bomb squad may know something about "bombs", they know little about the disposition of government property.

[pzjgr]

Lesson to be learned, if you call the police, your item is gone...period. They may even give you a nice little song and dance, but you will not get the item back from them.

 

So unless you want a valuable piece to disappear one way or another, don't call.

[M24 Chaffee]

Thanks for your replies. I thought this was a poor reason that my neighbor was given. His Father had it for 70 years after he fought bravely for his country. I've seen inert US WWII ordinance for sale at many types of venues. I don't believe my old neighbors will pursue this. I'm sure they have more valuable and personal items left to them by their Father. It just made me a bit angry.

 

Thanks,

Frank

[US Military Guy]

Theft of property by government employees is valid justification for anger.

[jgawne]

one one had yes, it may well be sold. I used to trade munitions with state police EOD man. He somehow seemed to always have extra stuff... and there is no wonder why it came from. He never said it but it was obvious he brought stuff home that he knew was deactivated. And he also used ot trade with other police EOD men. (and sell to collectors).

 

However, there is an odd clause in ownership of military items. If the govt. never sold an item off so that someone has no real way of proving it was legally obtained, they can (and have) claimed it was improperly taken and take it back. Not often but it happens.

 

In this case I bet if you went down to the station and asked for their reciept of turing it back to the Army they'd look sheepish.

 

Thing is, any explosives they HAVE to consider as live, just in case. In theory it is supposed to be taken to a range and blown up.

[Garandomatic]

A friend's grandfather's Luger met the same fate. Why his mom and grandma didn't call him is beyond me.

[KABAR2]

some cop on the bomb squad now has a nice addition to his collection, that is a B.S. story that no you can't have it back because it belonged to the army 60+ years ago..... it would be like the police taking your 1903 Springfield because it once belonged to the Army......

[jgawne]

However, let's say it was a 1903 Peterson Device. IF, and this has hardly ever been done, IF the Govt wanted to, they could make you show proof that you obtained it legally. If no Peterson devices were ever sold or disposed of in a way that might allow you to have evantually come into posetion of one with a legal trail back to that, then the only other option is that it was stolen from the Army, and can be reclaimed. Mind you, this has almost never been done. I know of a rare cannon that was stolen from West Point, and there have been some vehicles/guns that were loaned to VFW's and towns - which were sold off (even thought they were supposed to be on loan). Even if they cannot show the SN was an 'on loan' item, if the Army can show none were ever actually sold that had not been cut up, it falls into the same catagory.

 

What is really awful is that when people find a machine gun and call the cops, it gets immediatly taken to the station, a check run on the SN, and if its not registered it has to be destroyed. Generally the cops refuse the owner permission to pull parts from it as only the reciever has to be turned in.

 

When I was getting a firearms license renewed (years ago) they ashowed me a PPSH-41 with mag that one of the cops had noticed a young kid walking down th estreet with. He pulled over, found it was a real one and confiscated it. They never really figured out where it came from, but the whole thing, including drum mag (which was worth something back then) went off to be destroyed.

[Simon Lerenfort]

Unless you can be 100% sure that the likes of a Bazooka rocket are inert, either by accurate documentary evidence or in your own case the words of your neighbours late Father then that is fine.

 

If there is any doubt then it is always better to treat it as live.

 

Of course if it was a drill rocket then it would be clearly identifiable as inert - as these are painted black.

 

Kind Regards,

Simon

[Big Al]

However, let's say it was a 1903 Peterson Device. IF, and this has hardly ever been done, IF the Govt wanted to, they could make you show proof that you obtained it legally. If no Peterson devices were ever sold or disposed of in a way that might allow you to have evantually come into posetion of one with a legal trail back to that, then the only other option is that it was stolen from the Army, and can be reclaimed.

 

Actually, regarding the Pedersen Device, the Army relinquished all ownership claims when they destroyed them (or attempted to), so they could not make any claims on property they destroyed/threw away. It is the same thing as taking, say, a table someone set out on the sidewalk to be thrown away.

[NGCoastArtillery41]

Don't forget that local and state statutes on ordinance vary from area to area. For example, it is my understanding, that in California the ownership of demilled grenades is illegal because in theory it could be sealed with a charge placed inside. I'm not saying its right or wrong, I am just saying that that is the law in some areas.

[MAW]

If a bomb squad is contacted or mobilized, they are going to blow something up....inert or not. They really don't care, and they are pyro-maniacs themselves.

 

You will see 100 news stories about some bomb squad destroying some "newly discovered" device found in grandpa's stuff....and NEVER...repeat NEVER....see a story about them being called out but deciding that everything was OK and leaving the object with the family.

[skautdog]

Tough situation. One can't really take a chance on unknown ordnance. I've seen above comments happen many times. IF EOD is involved they are going to blow it (unless they take it home and keep it). M24 Chaffee, sorry your friend lost a piece of family history.

 

Ken

[Mr.Jerry]

Find him another one an put a bow on it. Many times for these people it is not the atcual item it is what memories it evokes. If I had one now I would send you one.

[M24 Chaffee]

Thanks again for all the comments. I was curious about this when it happened. He left a number of things (from his time during the war) to his children that I'm sure they will cherish. He gave me an autographed photo of himself wearing his WWII dress uniform. That is hanging on the wall with my WWII collection. The 3 WWII vets from my old neighborhood (my father and 2 neighbors ) all passed away within a 4 month period.

 

Frank

[pzjgr]

You can always do some basic research before calling anyone, if so inclined...afterall if some research yields that it is a practice, or dummy, or training round, then no worries...

 

Again, if you EVER call the bomb squad/police/the man into your life over a piece of ordnance...YOU WILL NEVER SEE IT AGAIN...They can outright lie to you, like apparently they did ("It belongs to the Army...."), or they will blow it, or it will end up in one of their collections.

 

Everyone should feel free to do what they think is best, but just realize the thought of ever seeing the item again is just fantasy...

[Major Bummer]

you have been wronged sir.

I suggest starting a riot. anarchy! anarchy!

or take the lawful approach

 

local law inforcement in my area recently wrongfully confiscated a firearm from a good friend of mine, she has refused to let it go and has repeatedly taken the issue to cort, shes really giving them heck and shes winning making the local city cops look even worse then they already do. I suggest if your not going to start a riot you take legal action and don't let up.

 

I hope you get your rocket back

respectfully Dan.