1917 USMC Gun Pointer's sleeve mark

[hhbooker2]

Colonel Dion Williams, United States Marine Corps, wrote a book titled: "Army & Navy Uniforms & Insignia" in 1917 and on page 164a he showed a photograph (half-tone) of the GUN POINTER'S SLEEVE MARK and one page 165 he described it: "Enlisted men of the Marine Corps who have regularly qualified as gun pointers aboard ships of the Navy wear a design representing a six-pounder gun and mount on the right sleeve midway between the wrist and the elbow, the design to be in scarlet on blue cloth for blue coat and in drab linen thread for the field coats and flannel shirt." Sarge Booker of Tujunga, California ( hhbooker2@yahoo.con )

[hhbooker2]

Here is a Gun Pointer's sleeve mark, but it is white thread on blue.

[hhbooker2]

Here is the reverse side of the Gun Pointer's sleeve mark.

[hhbooker2]

Here is an enlargement from the half-tone photo in Colonel Williams' book.

[hhbooker2]

Here are four Gun Pointer's sleeve marks, one is blue with a white gun, one is khaki-suntan with a red gun, and the other two are khaki-suntan with blue guns. These are different from what was described in the 1917 book by Colonel Dion Williams, U.S.M.C.? Sarge Booker

[Brig]

I'd imagine for their Naval counterparts? similar to the parachute rates were the same for both branches, only the colors varied

[hhbooker2]

1917 chart showing the USMC Gun Pointer sleeve mark, lower right hand corner of print.

[hhbooker2]

Gun Pointer in red on white.

[SgtMaddoxUSMC]

The red gun on blue backing is for Gun Pointer, First Class.  So is the red on khaki.
The white gun on blue backing is for Gun Pointer, Second Class.  So is the blue on khaki.
On the flannel shirts, as far as I can tell, just one design was worn as seen below:

[SgtMaddoxUSMC]

Here is the breakdown from the 1908 USMC uniform regs:

[SgtMaddoxUSMC]

Interestingly, there MAY have also been a yellow silk on sky blue kersey for the pre-1912 overcoat, and a (red? text says drab but all other insignia was red on green..) on forest green version for the 1912 overcoat.  I am still researching to see if there is evidence to back this up, however I have never seen examples or photos to support.

See the below changes added to the 1908 uniform regs (top) and passage from the 1912 uniform regs (bottom).  Also note in the 1912 regs the blue on khaki no longer exists.

[Dirk]

Great info Erik!