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CIB/Bronze Star conversion

Started by ctink1863 , Mar 03 2010 05:11 AM

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#1 ctink1863

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 05:11 AM

World War II recipients who received the Combat Infantrymans Badge could have that converted to a Bronze Star. I need the reference to the official regulations for this conversion. Does this conversion award show up in the service record or did the veteran just receive the medal?

#2 atb

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 05:25 AM

Conversion seems an incorrect term. That would mean exchanging the CIB to a Bronze Star medal. The award of a CIB in WW2 entitled the awardee to a Bronze Star as an additional award (but what do I know). I believe application had to be made by the soldier or veteran. I'll see if I can find the pertinent roriginal egulations and administrative instructions.

Edited by atb, 03 March 2010 - 05:35 AM.


#3 atb

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 06:36 AM

Here is an extract from the current Army Regulation, AR 600-8-22-

(2) Award may be made to each member of the Armed Forces of the United States who, after 6 December 1941, has been cited in orders or awarded a certificate for exemplary conduct in ground combat against an armed enemy between 7 December 1941 and 2 September 1945, inclusive, or whose meritorious achievement has been otherwise confirmed by documents executed prior to 1 July 1947. For this purpose, an award of the Combat Infantryman Badge or Combat Medical Badge is considered as a citation in orders. Documents executed since 4 August 1944 in connection with recommendations for the award of decorations of higher degree than the Bronze Star Medal will not be used as the basis for an award under this paragraph. Veterans and retirees may submit letter application to National Personnel Records Center, ATTN: NPRMA–M, 9700 Page Avenue, St. Louis, MO 63132–5100. Soldiers who retired or were discharged after to 1 October 2002 and the next of kin of Soldiers who died after 1 October 2002 should send their letter application to the Commander, U.S. Army Human Resources Command, ATTN: AHRC–CC–B, 1 Reserve Way, St. Louis, MO 63132–5200. The letter application should include documentary evidence, if possible.

#4 atb

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 09:01 AM

Change 12 to AR 600-45, 10 Sep 1947 made provisions for the award of the Bronze Star Medal to WW2 recipients of the Combat Infantry and Medical Badges. It says, "Those individuals who, as members of the armed forces of the United States were cited by name on or after 7 December 1941 and prior to 3 September 1945, in orders or in a formal certificate, for meritorious or exemplary conduct in ground combat against the armed enemy, may make application to The Adjutant General, Washington 25, D.C., for award of the Bronze Star Medal on the basis of such citation. A citation in orders for the Combat Infantry Badge or Medical Badge awarded in the field during the period pf actual combat against the armed enemy is considered as a citation for exemplary conduct in ground combat." Not the words "by application." And, nothing about converting the CIB or CMB to a BSM.

#5 seanmc1114

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 01:58 PM

The award was not automatic meaning that the War Department did not go through any master list or files and track down all recipients of the CIB to inform them of their eligibility for the Bronze Star. Many veterans found out about the regulations and applied for their medal over the years. I know in my grandfather's case, he did not receive his until around 1986 when I helped him send off to St. Louis for his medals. They sent an engraved Bronze Star along with a certificate for the medal. The interesting thing about his case is that he had served in the National Guard and Reserves for over 25 years after World War II, rising to the rank of Lt. Col. and he either never knew about his eligibility or else just never bothered applying for it.

#6 ItemCo16527

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 07:04 PM

I'll also confirm that it isn't a "conversion" award, although that term is very commonly used. The Bronze Star would be awarded in addition to the CIB, not as a replacement for it. Three years ago, I applied for one for my great uncle George who had been killed on Okinawa. If I remember correctly, they required you provide the General Order number for the Combat Infantryman Badge. If you are able to provide all of the required information, it can take up to 5-6 months to receive the medal. In my case, I was very lucky and received it in about two months, and it came officially named.

Edit:
See this link, it explains things pretty well, and is pretty much what I did to obtain my great uncle's BSM:
http://www.allmilita...ic.php?id=15768

This, however, is the most important part:

Documentary evidence is enclosed to substantiate the award of the (Combat Infantryman Badge or Combat Medical Badge) on (Date) entitling [him/them] to the BSM as a conversion award.

You must include copies of their DD-214 which would show the awarding of a CIB, or as I did, the official General Order announcing the award (i.e. GO #1, 1945, HQ 123 Infantry).

Edited by ItemCo16527, 03 March 2010 - 07:10 PM.


#7 m14msgt

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:06 PM

I'll also confirm that it isn't a "conversion" award, although that term is very commonly used. The Bronze Star would be awarded in addition to the CIB, not as a replacement for it. Three years ago, I applied for one for my great uncle George who had been killed on Okinawa. If I remember correctly, they required you provide the General Order number for the Combat Infantryman Badge. If you are able to provide all of the required information, it can take up to 5-6 months to receive the medal. In my case, I was very lucky and received it in about two months, and it came officially named.

Edit:
See this link, it explains things pretty well, and is pretty much what I did to obtain my great uncle's BSM:
http://www.allmilita...ic.php?id=15768

This, however, is the most important part:

You must include copies of their DD-214 which would show the awarding of a CIB, or as I did, the official General Order announcing the award (i.e. GO #1, 1945, HQ 123 Infantry).


What if the veteran is deceased? Can a granddaughter request it?

#8 Allan H.

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:48 PM

What if the veteran is deceased? Can a granddaughter request it?



the short answer is absolutely. ATB gives you the appropriate information in one of his previous posts-
Veterans and retirees may submit letter application to National Personnel Records Center, ATTN: NPRMA–M, 9700 Page Avenue, St. Louis, MO 63132–5100. Soldiers who retired or were discharged after to 1 October 2002 and the next of kin of Soldiers who died after 1 October 2002 should send their letter application to the Commander, U.S. Army Human Resources Command, ATTN: AHRC–CC–B, 1 Reserve Way, St. Louis, MO 63132–5200. The letter application should include documentary evidence, if possible.

Most of the men who found out about the availability of the Bronze Star medal for having earned a CIB or CMB were veterans who were members of the VFW and American Legion. The post service officers of most of the posts would put the name of the veteran in for the award. In many cases, these awards were issued at the monthly membership meetings. In later years, the medals were (and occassionally still are) bestowed by a member of congress.

Allan

#9 Huntzman

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 04:40 AM

Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question that ties in with this. If a person was awarded two bronze stars during WWII, one for an administrative undertaking (planning a major operation) and one based on the fact that they were in combat ops and were awarded the CIB, would the medal ribbon contain an oak leaf and a V device ?

#10 Brian D

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 05:00 AM

Just a note, I have a family member that was KIA during the war who had the won the CIB and the govt AUTOMATICALLY sent his posthumous engraved PH AND BS to my family in 1946. Thus I would say that these were "automatically" awarded after the war and presented to the family. :think:

#11 Little

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 05:47 AM

My uncle was wounded in the first wave on D day and had the CIB. He never received a BSM for the CIB. I have his service # and his serial #. How do I get his DD-214 and the Gen order announcing the CIB award? Thanks

#12 kanemono

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 06:32 AM

My father in law earned the CIB during WW2. I saw on this forum that he was eligible for the BSM. I contacted my Congressman and his staff walked me through the paperwork. It was form that is used to get an individuals records you just explain what you want on the form. My Father in law received his named BSM in about five weeks. He was thrilled.
Dick

#13 seanmc1114

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:15 AM

Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question that ties in with this. If a person was awarded two bronze stars during WWII, one for an administrative undertaking (planning a major operation) and one based on the fact that they were in combat ops and were awarded the CIB, would the medal ribbon contain an oak leaf and a V device ?

Yes on the oak leaf cluster but most likely no on the V device. A Bronze Star could be awarded for heroic or valorous achievement, meritorious achievement or meritorious service but the the action or service must have been in a combat theater. The distinction can be a little confusing but they are different. Valorous achievement usually refers to a single act or series of acts in combat and usually over a short period of time such as one day. So for example the medal could have been awarded for knocking out an enemy pillbox in combat or dragging a wounded soldier to safety under fire. If that were the case, the recipient should be entitled to a V device for the award. Nowadays and at least as far back as Vietnam the orders confirming the award will almost always indicate the medal is being awarded with the V device. I have seen some orders from World War II that clearly indicate the award was for valorous achievement but don't make any reference to a V device so I'm not sure when the V device was actually instituted.

To give you a better idea of the distinction between valorous and meritorious service or achievement, consider this. The valorous or heroic achievement meriting the Bronze Star with V device is less than that required for the Silver Star. On the other hand, the award of the Bronze Star for meritorious achievement or service would be of a lesser degree or in a position of lesser responsiblity than required for the Legion Of Merit.

If someone received a combination of awards for both valor and merit, only one V device is worn and the oak leaf clusters represent the total number of awards received. So for example if a soldier has received two awards of the Bronze Star for valor and two awards for merit, he would wear one V device and three oak leaf clusters on the ribbon.

The Bronze Star awarded in recognition of receiving the Combat Infantryman Badge was for meritorious achievement in combat and would not rate a V device.

#14 seanmc1114

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:20 AM

Just a note, I have a family member that was KIA during the war who had the won the CIB and the govt AUTOMATICALLY sent his posthumous engraved PH AND BS to my family in 1946. Thus I would say that these were "automatically" awarded after the war and presented to the family. :think:

Not to quibble but if your family received the Bronze Star you mentioned in 1946, it was not a "conversion" award based on the CIB but was a specific award based on some valorous act or meritorious achievement. There were probably specific orders issued for the award.

The "conversion" awards based on receipt of the CIB were not approved until 1947. So your relative is probably entitled to an a leaf cluster for his Bronze Star.

#15 Huntzman

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 03:30 AM

Sean

Thanks for the detailed information you provided on this topic.

Andrew

#16 jgawne

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 06:02 AM

My dad got two BS w/V in WW2. He was always pretty pissed at the addition of the extra BS for his CIB as he always said the CIB was enough (and the only decoration worth anything).

No matter how many times I tried to explain to him the rationale, he just said he thought it was really stupid and didn't want it.

I can't begin to tell you how many times people ask me for help in finding out what some guy did to earn it in the war, and when tell them, they get very disapointed.


I guess its kinda like giving berets to everyone, only not as ugly.


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