M3 & M1 Carbine pouches

[coolman]

hi everyone

 

have you ever seen a late style large carbine pouch wartime dated? is this a late war or postwar item?i'v heard of one dated 1945 the ones i'v seen are dated 1950

 

any M3 green grease gun 3 pocket pouches wartrime dated?

 

thanx

[Greg Robinson]

hi everyone

 

have you ever seen a late style large carbine pouch wartime dated? is this a late war or postwar item?i'v heard of one dated 1945 the ones i'v seen are dated 1950

 

any M3 green grease gun 3 pocket pouches wartrime dated?

 

thanx

 

Are you referring to the pouches for the 30 round carbine magazines? If so, be wary of any WW2 dated since I doubt any legit ones exist. I once saw one of those that looked OK but was marked AVERY 1943 and there just isn't any way that could be legit. But I have seen legit ones with Korean War dates although some of those are suspect according to collectors/researchers whose opinions I respect.

[coolman]

Are you referring to the pouches for the 30 round carbine magazines? If so, be wary of any WW2 dated since I doubt any legit ones exist. I once saw one of those that looked OK but was marked AVERY 1943 and there just isn't any way that could be legit. But I have seen legit ones with Korean War dates although some of those are suspect according to collectors/researchers whose opinions I respect.

 

a guy with a very good knowledge of the US webbing told me about the 1945 dated pouch

 

well...i dont know...i have'nt seen one in WWII period

[Greg Robinson]

a guy with a very good knowledge of the US webbing told me about the 1945 dated pouch

 

well...i dont know...i have'nt seen one in WWII period

 

A 30 round magazine pouch for the M1/M2 Carbine dated 1945 is a possibility but I'd not want to spend much on it in case it turned out to be a fake.

 

Greg

[coolman]

A 30 round magazine pouch for the M1/M2 Carbine dated 1945 is a possibility but I'd not want to spend much on it in case it turned out to be a fake.

 

Greg

 

yeah...sure...i agree with ya

[subsystem4]

I saw a twin cell pouch for holding two m1 carbine 30's at a show once for $50. It was "transitional" mix of OD#3 and OD#7 canvas and webbing and looked like a very tall version of the pouches for wear on the pistol belt. I think it was marked avery 1945. I got a funny feeling about it and didn't buy it... maybe i should have?

[Greg Robinson]

I saw a twin cell pouch for holding two m1 carbine 30's at a show once for $50. It was "transitional" mix of OD#3 and OD#7 canvas and webbing and looked like a very tall version of the pouches for wear on the pistol belt. I think it was marked avery 1945. I got a funny feeling about it and didn't buy it... maybe i should have?

 

All the pouches I've seen for the 30 round carbine magazines have been the type that had room for a couple magazines plus some stripper clips. At least I think that's what the extra space is for. I'd also have been suspicious of the "AVERY 1945" pouch. But I was tempted by that "AVERY 1943" pouch....it looked right and it was being sold by an Army Ordnanc officer who was a part time militaria dealer and whom I trusted to stand behind what he sold. But the date was way too early for one of those unless it had been made for testing. And I've always been told to be careful with those pouches.

[coolman]

All the pouches I've seen for the 30 round carbine magazines have been the type that had room for a couple magazines plus some stripper clips. At least I think that's what the extra space is for. I'd also have been suspicious of the "AVERY 1945" pouch. But I was tempted by that "AVERY 1943" pouch....it looked right and it was being sold by an Army Ordnanc officer who was a part time militaria dealer and whom I trusted to stand behind what he sold. But the date was way too early for one of those unless it had been made for testing. And I've always been told to be careful with those pouches.

 

 

i dont think were fake...is that thing so collectible? it's not even khaki...it's not even WWII far as we know...it's seldom seen even in korea!!! what makes that item so sexy?

[glenm]

Before the standard 30-round Magazine Pouch came out they converted some of the 15-round pouches by extending them on the flap with an extra piece of canvas. The Avery 45 one described above sounds like one of these?

 

Cheers,

Glen.

[Greg Robinson]

i dont think were fake...is that thing so collectible? it's not even khaki...it's not even WWII far as we know...it's seldom seen even in korea!!! what makes that item so sexy?

 

Beats the heck out of me. But I do know that the M1 Carbine is a HOT collecting niche for US military martial arms collectors and gun collectors go ape over "accessories". Just look at the market for reproduction/fake carbine slings. And they're reproducing the WW2 "stock" pouches for the 15 round mags. And fake carbine parts are all over the place. So why not the 30 round pouch since it's associated with the M2 Carbine (select fire) which is definitely sexy.

[coolman]

Beats the heck out of me. But I do know that the M1 Carbine is a HOT collecting niche for US military martial arms collectors and gun collectors go ape over "accessories". Just look at the market for reproduction/fake carbine slings. And they're reproducing the WW2 "stock" pouches for the 15 round mags. And fake carbine parts are all over the place. So why not the 30 round pouch since it's associated with the M2 Carbine (select fire) which is definitely sexy.

 

hm...yeah...you'r right...

 

well...i'm not familiar with repros bc i come from greece..in greece there are no reproductions around bc ppl dosnt give a damn about collections & reenactions...i'f you walk the roads in greece dressed as a soldier within 2 minutes you'll get arrested by the police for investigation & greek policemen dont have a good sence of humour is just out of our culture & there is no market for those

 

i remember tons of those late carbine pouches here 10 years ago all original all dated 1949-1950

 

of course nothing of the good old militaria left in greece...duch belgian & american dealers ruined everything during the 80s & 90s ...they bought all the stocks for nothing & they sent them to belgium holland & overseas...

 

today we dont have repros & we dont have original ones anymore...there is nothing good that you can buy in greece

 

simply amaze me the huge bulk of repros in the other western countries

[Greg Robinson]

of course nothing of the good old militaria left in greece...duch belgian & american dealers ruined everything during the 80s & 90s ...they bought all the stocks for nothing & they sent them to belgium holland & overseas...

 

today we dont have repros & we dont have original ones anymore...there is nothing good that you can buy in greece

 

simply amaze me the huge bulk of repros in the other western countries

 

A few years ago a dealer Holland sold me a mint 1942 dated USMC camouflage poncho from those that had been discovered in storage in Greece. Apparently, given away post WW2. This poncho is still folded as it would have been coming out of the original crate. Most of those are long gone now.

 

Greg

[craig_pickrall]

Before the standard 30-round Magazine Pouch came out they converted some of the 15-round pouches by extending them on the flap with an extra piece of canvas. The Avery 45 one described above sounds like one of these?

 

Cheers,

Glen.

 

I think the Avery pouch mentioned earlier isn't one of the modified pouches. The cover flap is made of one piece. I'm 99.9% sure the ones I have seen are repro's. They appeared just a few years ago and they are all mint condition. All of the true modified pouches I have seen have been well used.

 

This is typical of what I have seen.

 

[coolman]

A few years ago a dealer Holland sold me a mint 1942 dated USMC camouflage poncho from those that had been discovered in storage in Greece. Apparently, given away post WW2. This poncho is still folded as it would have been coming out of the original crate. Most of those are long gone now.

 

Greg

 

probably u talk abt the man who runs the westland.nl in holland...yes...he bought many marine ponchos 7 or 8 years back

[coolman]

I think the Avery pouch mentioned earlier isn't one of the modified pouches. The cover flap is made of one piece. I'm 99.9% sure the ones I have seen are repro's. They appeared just a few years ago and they are all mint condition. All of the true modified pouches I have seen have been well used.

 

This is typical of what I have seen.

 

 

no craig...this is the modified 15rd carbine pocket for 30rd banana mags...i'm not talking abt carbine 2cell pocket...i'm talking abt carbine pouch in a general external look close to the USMC M14 vietnam pouch but bigger in overal dimensions & with dividers inside .the ones i'v seen were original dated 1949 or 1950...simply a very serious collector told me about one of those he found dated 1945 but i have'nt seen a sample ever....

[craig_pickrall]

Okay, it is this pouch then.

 

 

 

I do not recall ever seeing one of these dated before the Korean War. Ithink if I had seen one and thought it was real and it was for sell I would have bought it.

[glenm]

Without taking the thread too far off track re items from Greece, the big militaria fair at Stoneleigh in the UK last weekend had a stack of MINT M36 Musettes and another stack of slightly used M36 Musettes, together with Mountain Rucksacks (all very good condition), all just released from Greek Army stores. The stuff is still out there in Greece.

 

Back to the 30 round mag pouches, for some reason I have in my mind that the non-modified 4 mag pouch was a 1948 design? Not sure where I remember that from?

 

Cheers,

Glen.

[craig_pickrall]

I just checked U S ARMY UNIFORMS OF THE KOREAN WAR by Shelby Stanton. It has the following about the 30 round mag pouch. The pouch was adopted in 1947 for use with the M2 Carbine, the sprcification was approved 22 NOV, 1949 and the item was finally rushed into production for the Korean War. According to this no sample would have existed before 1947 and those would be experimental and very rare. The best you can hope for would be 1950 dated but 1951 is much more likely.

[bilko1]

A few years ago a dealer Holland sold me a mint 1942 dated USMC camouflage poncho from those that had been discovered in storage in Greece. Apparently, given away post WW2. This poncho is still folded as it would have been coming out of the original crate. Most of those are long gone now.

 

Greg

 

Musettes[nos] and big sized shirts with cutter tags now mate ...he still has synthetic[sp] and rubberised ponchos[army]....

 

 

3 or 4 crated dodge engins as well...

 

Dave.

[Greg Robinson]

I just checked U S ARMY UNIFORMS OF THE KOREAN WAR by Shelby Stanton. It has the following about the 30 round mag pouch. The pouch was adopted in 1947 for use with the M2 Carbine, the sprcification was approved 22 NOV, 1949 and the item was finally rushed into production for the Korean War. According to this no sample would have existed before 1947 and those would be experimental and very rare. The best you can hope for would be 1950 dated but 1951 is much more likely.

 

I dug through my old files and found a copy of a forum page from the M1 Carbine Collectors Forum dated 7 November 1999. A very knowledgeable and experienced carbine collector posted the following in a thread on those 30 round pouches:

 

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Greg, The "Pocket, Magazine, Carbine, 30 Round" that is commonly seen with early 1950's dates was not adopted until 1947 and produced under specifications approved on 22 Nov 1949. If you see one with a date prior to this, I would be very suspicious of a fake. BTW, the original testing of the M2 carbine (originally designated T4) at Aberdeen PG did not commence until summer 1944. Any M2 related accessories that predate 1944 would logically be suspected as fakes. Rick

 

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And here's a pic of that AVERY marked pouch. I think it was dated 1943...but maybe it was 1944. Either way it falls into the "ain't gonna happen" category. The Army officer/part time militaria dealer, who was a great source of militaria for me years ago, swore it was legit and I believe he really thought it was. Maybe he was right....but I just couldn't get past the fact that the existence of such a pouch was totally illogical.

 

[coolman]

I dug through my old files and found a copy of a forum page from the M1 Carbine Collectors Forum dated 7 November 1999. A very knowledgeable and experienced carbine collector posted the following in a thread on those 30 round pouches:

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Greg, The "Pocket, Magazine, Carbine, 30 Round" that is commonly seen with early 1950's dates was not adopted until 1947 and produced under specifications approved on 22 Nov 1949. If you see one with a date prior to this, I would be very suspicious of a fake. BTW, the original testing of the M2 carbine (originally designated T4) at Aberdeen PG did not commence until summer 1944. Any M2 related accessories that predate 1944 would logically be suspected as fakes. Rick

 

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And here's a pic of that AVERY marked pouch. I think it was dated 1943...but maybe it was 1944. Either way it falls into the "ain't gonna happen" category. The Army officer/part time militaria dealer, who was a great source of militaria for me years ago, swore it was legit and I believe he really thought it was. Maybe he was right....but I just couldn't get past the fact that the existence of such a pouch was totally illogical.

 

craig..i'll agree with you

 

that AVERY 30rd pouch does'nt look correct at all

 

does"nt look correct for 2 main reasons:

 

1st:the US stamp when comes in this artistic pattern has allways the dots between the US like this--->U.S. "were are the dots in this AVERY kind of thing? well i dont know...maybe they go hawaii for winter vacations..."

 

the dots to the original samples are missing only when the US stamp comes in the seldom seen in 1943 geometrical pattern witch is more a korean & nam period pattern...so here we have the artistic stamp without the dots=FAKE BY 2000 MILES DISTANCE!!!

 

2nd:the 2 eylets at the bottom dont have the extra stiching above to keep them stiff witch is not normal...look now with the mags inserted the eylets look like ...i dont wanna say the bad word but begins with S...& the last leter is....T in between there are 2 more letters...so...thats a good fakers effort to make a fantasy item...well...good effort for a gun show & there can easilly bring some bucks home to the fakers pockets but here is the US militaria forum & we are not radom people...we all having sharp eyes here:thumbsup:

 

by the way i dont think shelby stantons books are good books...dont take what that dude says allways as a fact...some of his descriptions are very good & very informative but still there are many errors within his books

 

[coolman]

Without taking the thread too far off track re items from Greece, the big militaria fair at Stoneleigh in the UK last weekend had a stack of MINT M36 Musettes and another stack of slightly used M36 Musettes, together with Mountain Rucksacks (all very good condition), all just released from Greek Army stores. The stuff is still out there in Greece.

 

Back to the 30 round mag pouches, for some reason I have in my mind that the non-modified 4 mag pouch was a 1948 design? Not sure where I remember that from?

 

Cheers,

Glen.

 

and as i can imagine all that greek staff was to the stands of some Dutch or Belgian guys as allways the last 20 years...

[Leatherwringer]

Hey guys...I picked up this pouch today (with a few other nice items) and found this thread while doing some research on it. It was given to me by a gentleman who bought a few back in the 70's from a

Army-Navy store....he said they came straight out of the original wood shipping crates.

what is the consensus now that this thread is 4 years old? has anybody else found any of these Avery 1943 Carbine pouches? is it legit?

 

 

 

[craig_pickrall]

I'm not sure what category you would put that in. It isn't repro because no real one looked like that. I guess it is either fake or made for civilian consumption / surplus store sells. It is not WW2 US GI issue.

[Leatherwringer]

Thanks for the info/imput