Jump to content


1st marine division patch

Started by Guest_beirutveteran_* , Jan 05 2007 08:00 PM

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_beirutveteran_*

Guest_beirutveteran_*
  • Guests
    • Member ID: 322

Posted 05 January 2007 - 08:00 PM

01_05__1.JPG 01_05__2.JPG What era would this have been worn? is it real or a fake? thanks

#2 KurtA

KurtA
  • Members
    • Member ID: 283
  • 5,089 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 January 2007 - 09:02 PM

It's not fake. Would have been worn by a member of the US Army as a right shoulder combat patch who had prior USMC combat service (most likely Vietnam).
Kurt

#3 BOB K. RKSS

BOB K. RKSS
  • Members
    • Member ID: 322
  • 595 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Connecticut, USA

Posted 06 January 2007 - 04:37 AM

USMC stopped wearing any arm patches in 1947. The patch shown is from Iraq War, & a limited private contract by a USMC unit Commander; who presented these to U.S. ARMY men; who were attached to his Marine unit in Iraq. It does not have any relation to "prior USMC service", or to Vietnam.

#4 KurtA

KurtA
  • Members
    • Member ID: 94
  • 5,089 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:56 AM

USMC stopped wearing any arm patches in 1947. The patch shown is from Iraq War, & a limited private contract by a USMC unit Commander; who presented these to U.S. ARMY men; who were attached to his Marine unit in Iraq. It does not have any relation to "prior USMC service", or to Vietnam.


I've seen these subdued USMC patches all over the place for years - Ebay, Army Navy Stores, Militaria Shows, etc etc. Based on the large numbers I've seen, production of them goes far beyond a "private contract." Based on what I saw while on active duty in the Army in the early 1980's, it was not uncommon for US Army personnel who, prior to serving in the US Army, were in the Marine Corps in Vietnam. Many of these combat vets wore subdued USMC Division patches on the right shoulder of their fatigues.
There's a good chance the patch pictured here was worn in this way.
Kurt

Edited by KurtA, 06 January 2007 - 07:57 AM.


#5 CNY Militaria

CNY Militaria

    SENIOR MODERATOR

  • Senior Moderators
    • Member ID: 85
  • 9,660 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York

Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:17 AM

Going along these lines a bit, I once saw a WWII veteran of the 5th AAF wearing a subdued version of the patch on his 1990's BDU's as a member of the New York Guard.

#6 US CANTEEN GURU

US CANTEEN GURU

    BANNED

  • Banned
    • Member ID: 22
  • 266 posts

Posted 06 January 2007 - 11:11 AM

When I transferred from the inactive reserve to the National guard in 1972 there were former Marines with Viet Nam service wearing the 1 MARDIV SSI. They wore the full color SSI on their Class A and the subdued SSI on their fatigue uniforms.

I recall seeing a semi-subdued version of the 5th AF SSI on the fatigues of two former USAF veterans. I say semi-subdued because the SSI were three colors: OG, black and brown.

#7 Brig

Brig

    SENIOR MODERATOR

  • Senior Moderators
    • Member ID: 84
  • 16,624 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Everywhere

Posted 06 January 2007 - 11:56 AM

when I was in Kuwait coming home from my first tour in Iraq last Spring, I saw several Army soldiers with a 'foliage green' (new ACU color patches) 2nd MarDiv combat patch for having worked alongside us earlier in the war. Something their command must have authorized, since we don't recognize patches. Nonetheless, I myself was presented with 2 Army combat patches (49th and 89th MP Bns) for working with them on my first tour. I guess it was an incentive to 'Go Guard' when my contract expires, as I received the official certificates with them, as well

#8 GLM *Deceased*

GLM *Deceased*

    DECEASED

  • IN MEMORIAM
    • Member ID: 2
  • 1,169 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:COLORADO

Posted 06 January 2007 - 01:17 PM

I've seen these subdued USMC patches all over the place for years - Ebay, Army Navy Stores, Militaria Shows, etc etc. Based on the large numbers I've seen, production of them goes far beyond a "private contract." Based on what I saw while on active duty in the Army in the early 1980's, it was not uncommon for US Army personnel who, prior to serving in the US Army, were in the Marine Corps in Vietnam. Many of these combat vets wore subdued USMC Division patches on the right shoulder of their fatigues.
There's a good chance the patch pictured here was worn in this way.
Kurt


Correctomundo Kurt! Here's one that a Marine buddy I served with, circa 1969-70-71 gave to me. He hadn't had enough military with the Marines during Vietnam, so he enlisted in the Army, circa 1974, serving with 101st AB ID. He finally had enough and got out after his 4 year hitch with the Army, so this camo 1st Mar Div dates to sometime in the mid to late 1970's. He cut this off his Army utility blouse right shoulder for me before he threw his stuff away. Former Marines serving in the Army have been wearing these on their right shoulders for years.

Gary

Attached Images

  • 1md_fr.jpg
  • 1md_rev.jpg


#9 Bob Hudson

Bob Hudson

    Forum Co-Founder (Ret)

  • Administrators
    • Member ID: 265
  • 21,751 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 January 2007 - 03:57 PM

At one time Armey referred to the right shoulder patches as the Former Overseas Wartime Parent Unit and then Wartime Service Patch. I think the official name is now SHOULDER SLEEVE INSIGNIA FORMER WARTIME SERVICE (SSI-FWTS).

The Army has some interesting regs on patches. Somewhere around here I have an Army woodland camo shirt with a Navy aircrew badge sewn above the right pocket.

#10 VMI88

VMI88
  • Members
    • Member ID: 271
  • 2,284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:36 AM

To add to the discussion, for many years Army regulations specifically prohibited wearing Marine divisional insignia, though it was still seen from time to time. However, as mentioned above, Army personnel attached to a Marine division in Iraq have been given approval to wear a Marine Corps patch (sorry, I don't recall which one). These would most often be seen in brown on the DCU, or now in foliage green on the ACU.

The green patches such as the one at the top of this thread have been around for years, sometimes worn on the uniform, but were never approved.

Bill

#11 Jason G

Jason G
  • Members
    • Member ID: 5
  • 3,330 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peeples Publik of Murr

Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:34 AM

To add to the discussion, for many years Army regulations specifically prohibited wearing Marine divisional insignia, though it was still seen from time to time. However, as mentioned above, Army personnel attached to a Marine division in Iraq have been given approval to wear a Marine Corps patch (sorry, I don't recall which one). These would most often be seen in brown on the DCU, or now in foliage green on the ACU.

The green patches such as the one at the top of this thread have been around for years, sometimes worn on the uniform, but were never approved.

Bill


To add a further "bit" to this discussion, Army regs allow soldiers who served with Marine units to wear the Divisional insignia of the unit they worked under....HOWEVER...if you are a Marine, and transistion to the army, you aren't supposed to wear Marine SSI..because Marine's don't wear SSI.

One of the more inane current army regulations. (AR 670-1) Go to page 263 of the pdf file, (actual page is 240). Paragraph 14, c, 3.

Here's the complete link to the Reg; it's worth keeping around as a reference...


http://www.usapa.arm...iles/r670_1.pdf

All the best,
JasonG

PS: As a former Marine, if I were in the army, and had served with the Marines in a place where I rated the combat patch, you can better believe I'd wear one, regs be damned.

There is one exception to the rule, for Marines who served during WWII who later serve in the Army; because in WWII, the Marines wore SSI!

#12 craig_pickrall

craig_pickrall

    Deceased Forum Co-Founder

  • IN MEMORIAM
    • Member ID: 5
  • 11,253 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Virginia, USA

Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:51 PM

This is a short item from the OCT, 2004 issue of Leatherneck Magazine.

USMC_1ST_DIV_1.jpg
USMC_1ST_DIV_2.jpg
USMC_1ST_DIV_3.jpg

#13 craig_pickrall

craig_pickrall

    Deceased Forum Co-Founder

  • IN MEMORIAM
    • Member ID: 22
  • 11,253 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Virginia, USA

Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:52 PM

USMC_1ST_DIV_4.jpg
USMC_1ST_DIV_5.jpg

#14 Brig

Brig

    SENIOR MODERATOR

  • Senior Moderators
    • Member ID: 15
  • 16,624 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Everywhere

Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:00 PM

we have an Army Sergeant running around with one of these on his ACUs. If I can run him down I'll ask him the exact regs

#15 BEAR

BEAR
  • Members
    • Member ID: 22
  • 563 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:East of Ft. Lewis

Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:54 PM

we have an Army Sergeant running around with one of these on his ACUs. If I can run him down I'll ask him the exact regs

http://www.marlowwhi...670-1-view.html

Army Regulation 670-1
3 February 2005
Effective date: 3 March 2005
UNCLASSIFIED
Uniforms and Insignia
Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia
Army Regulation 670-1

28-17. Shoulder sleeve insignia-former wartime service (SSI-FWTS)

(14) Operation Iraqi Freedom: from 19 March 2003 to a date to be determined, for soldiers assigned to units participating in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Soldiers must have been deployed in the CENTCOM area of operations, or participated in Operation Iraqi Freedom while deployed in Turkey, Israel, and Aegis cruisers. Soldiers who served with the 1st Marine Division from 19 March 2003 to 21 April 2003 during combat operations in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom are authorized to wear the 1st Marine Division shoulder sleeve insignia as their SSI-FWTS. Soldiers who were deployed in the area of operations on training exercises or in support of operations other than Iraqi Freedom are not authorized the SSI-FWTS, unless those exercises or operations became combat or support missions to Operation Iraqi Freedom.
And this one is former Marines serving in the US Army:
(3) Other services. The Department of the Navy, the United States Marine Corps (USMC), and the Air Force do not authorize wear of SSI. Therefore, personnel who served in one of the designated areas during one of the specified periods, but who were not members of the U.S. Army, are not authorized to wear the SSI-FWTS on their right shoulder. The only exception to this policy is for U.S. Army members who served with the USMC during World War II from 15 March 1943 through 2 September 1946.

Hope this helps
BEAR

Edited by BEAR, 23 January 2007 - 10:55 PM.


#16 Brig

Brig

    SENIOR MODERATOR

  • Senior Moderators
  • 16,624 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Everywhere

Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:15 PM

I think it's an acceptable non-reg practice then, as I've seen several cases these days of soldiers wearing 1st or 2nd MarDiv patches


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


In Memory of Co-Founder GREG MILLS ROBINSON, a.k.a. "Marine-KaBar"
(February 17, 1949 - March 5, 2011)